Dubias... Failing and Confused...

[QuioteCham]

So previously as I told in another thread, I combined two colonies of dubias (a few weeks ago) and have a little over 200. There are more females than males and make up about 30%/ 60 individuals of the colony. They are in a 20 gal glass tank and are kept in mostly darkness. No one has died... yet. I feed them dark leafy greens, oatmeal, apples, carrots and orange slices.

The problem: I feel like I never see them eat, nor is much of their food gone. I can see tiny little bites in the fresh fruits/ vegies, but no bites in the oatmeal or greens. Questions: 1. Are there certain foods they like better? 2. Will certain foods help them grow faster and produce more quickly? I feel like they turn up their little snooty roach noses at what food I give them, lol.

Also, I have the extra large (whatever the biggest size is) of the zoomed heat pads on the bottom of the cage. The bottom of the glass seems warm enough for them, But I am worried if it needs to be warmer. My temp gage reads st 78. Too cold? Last, when can I expect to see the population grow?

If anyone can give me some tips on how I can get the little guys to eat more/ make sure they are "loaded up" properly for my chams, I would be most apprecitive Thank you every body!

 

[boj3434]

I have the same problem but I dont find dead ones so they must be doing ok. Ive heard fruits help them to be productive and if your just growing the colony and not feeding them to your chameleon then use some dog food.

 

[pssh]

Mine are kept around 85-90 degrees for breeding. You probably want ti raise the temps if it seems too low. I throw in a (torn up/ripped up) half of a romain lettuce head and it's gone by the next morning. I have about 60-70 females and 15-20 males with hundreds of nymphs... They love the fruit though! Anything sweet and they come out during the day even. They don't seem to like kale or collards and will eat them as a last resort. I don't feed them high calcium stuff though unless they're going to be fed off as I'm trying to grow my colony more.

Try feeding higher protien foods (not cat/dog/fish food though) in addition to a temp boost.

 

[QuioteCham]

I know not to feed cat/dog/fish food, but what else is high in protein?

 

[QuioteCham]

lol, i just had a thought as I opened my fridge.

Can I give them a hotdog weenie? Would they like it? could that hurt my chameleon?

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

he easiest way to get your roaches to eat what you want is to use a blender and add multiple different kinds of fruits and some of the veggies you know they don't like and whatever else you plan on feeding them. Add a little water so you know it will blend and once it is a mush just put in on a plastic lid by the spoonful. It ensures they will get a variance of minerals and such and I have never had them not eat it. plus it provides tons of moisture so you know they are extra juicy for you chams. Just avoid veggies high in calcium as it will kill the dubia. My dubia also like cricket food and get it once in a while but it's too high in calcium to feed often. Also you don't have to work about making too big a batch of the wet gutload because you can put it in ice cube tray and freeze it then pop it out of the tray and store in a plastic bag. This way you can have multiple types of nutritious fruit and veggie gutloads to feed every day. Just be sure to use at least one sweet thing in each batch so you know they will eat it. I have probably 10 or 11 gallon sized ziploc baggies full of different gutload cubes with the ingredients n a piece of paper stapled to the bag, this way I have at least some idea what vitamins and minerals I'm feeding them every day and that my chams are getting. It also seems like mushy food is easier for them to eat. They can eat hard things like dog food and who pieces of fruit but they just seem to eat mushy stuff much easier. I think it's easier for them to get more in them faster because of the lack of effort they put in, it's kinda like drinking a protein shake for a person. good luck.



Justin

EDIT: hotdogs, like most meet, is high in protein and would probably provide you cham with way too much protein if you fed this to your roaches consistently and excess protein in chams leads to gout which is painful and not very good for the chameleon in general. However I don't think it would hurt too much if you fed it just one day.

 

[QuioteCham]

I like the ice cub tray idea. Brilliant! So weenies no good eh? what other high protein foods can the roaches eat that won't hurt my chams?

 

[pssh]

You can try using ground up nuts in that mix for protein.

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

I personally don't feed my dubias a high protein diet. They eat fruit and veggie cubes and on occasion get a gutload cube that has some protein in it like egg whites or ground nuts.They do not need the excessive amount of protein other roaches need to thrive, however they still need some. Any high protein diet can cause harm to your chams. Chams unlike some other lizards and snakes do not need alot of protein and don't usually eat many things high in protein. For example snakes eat mice and lizards and birds all high in protein and can digest it fine. Chams are use to bugs. Although bugs have protein they do not have very high amounts of it unless they are eating high amounts of it. People try to keep their chams from eating high protein gutloaded insects because chameleons cannot digest and filter out the protein like other animals because they are not built for it. Here's a link explaining protein and fat in chameleons and the needs of each http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=98

It should help explain it better than I can for you. My dubia have been going for nearly a year on fruits and veggies and I have lost maybe 2 so it seems to be working. I think those 2 died of old age anyways.


Justin


EDIT: Oh and I can't take credit for the ice cube idea, a family friend of ours gave me the idea back in the mid-late nineties when he was doing it for his crested geckos that he had just gotten after their rediscovery/un-extinction and their fruit/veggie dietary needs. He also did to for veiled chams before that with a more pureed/water heavy mixture. He would set the cubes on top of the screen and as they dripped down the cham would drink the thick liquid drops and they all loved it. They were hesitant about regular water after he started using his fruit/veggie water.

EDIT AGAIN: Ground nuts work well like pssh and I both said, great minds think alike.

 

[QuioteCham]

Excellent idea still! Thank you guys both for the great info One last thing: If everything is going well, how soon should I expect to see new roaches?

 

[pssh]

If all is well, expect New baby roaches in a month at the max. If you don't see any there may be something else they need. With 30 females my friend saw 200-300 in less than a month and a half.

 

[xanthoman]

protien diet for dubia, without dogfood

i largely follow old skools routine, their primary source of food is a semi dri course ground gutload made up of typical cham ingredients ; kale, collard and mustard greens, squash, carotts, yams, afalfasprouts, rasberries, various berries, raw sunflowerseeds, dried kelp or seaweed , some fig powder, wheatgerm, and probably about 15% total cereal (or redibrek) all ingredients are slow(non heat) dried to a consistancy of being crumbly but not 100% dry, all of the ingredients are crushed one at a time to be sure i get the consistancy i want. i usually crush it all using a mortar & pestle so as not to over powder it, i try to achieve a course ground, not superfine mixture. if you try to crush them all at once, it can lead to mixing problems. and if its bone dry they wont eat it. for protein i sparingly use bee pollen (approx 25%protien) and or (dried) spirulina (can be as high as 50% protien) and or (dried) krill. if the mixture is too dry, i just crush a couple of berries and put them in the bag overnight. the recipe is not exact, it just depends largely on what items i can conveniently get. i try to avoid things like dog food, egg yolk, bird, fish, or monkey chow (or hotdogs). the last batch i made cost me about $25 and made at least 3lbs. i let it sit in the fridge overnight to even out the moisture and then i put it in a ziplock in the freezer. i still have most of the bee pollen (also useful for raising hfs or bbfs)and spirulina left over (the two most expensive ingredients). i have no idea of how many roaches are in my colony but it seems like 200 adults would be a lot for a 20g aquarium. the problem with aquariums is that they dont like light and glass readily sucks the heat out, if your only heat source in an aquarium is a bottom heat pad it could be warm on the bottom, but too cold everywhere else (and they prefer not to hang out on the floor) they prefer a gradual heat gradient, you could wrap the aquarium with black paper or something but i prefer a tall rubbermaid tub (with appropriate 3 way ventilation added) i have two shallow dishes with easy access, i put about one level tablespoon in one dish and a few well hydrated water crystals in the other. i also put some egg crate over their dishes so they dont feel too exposed when eating. most mornings the food is gone. i have recently cut back on my temps because my colony was over producing, but if you really want them to crank it out, try to stay around 85+* amongst the egg crates, to about 95* in the hottest location, and dont just guess, use a digital temp probe, a few degrees outside of that range makes a big diff. crickets also love this gutload but i dont raise them. the above gutload will supply all of the protein you need without any of the undesireable ingredients. thats the way i do it and it has worked almost too well for me. (but then i only have 5 adult chams). just my 2c worth

 

[fluxlizard]

I don't have anything really to add to diet that hasn't already been said.

I'd just say you have to be patient. I constantly rotate adult roaches into new tubs as I feed out the nymphs. The adults take a couple of months to sort of adjust and really start producing after being moved into a new tub. For that matter, it took mine several months for the first ones I had to really start producing after I bought them and they were shipped to me. Just have a little patience and they will come around...

 

[rmichaelk]

Just curious, what is considered high calcium greens or fruits? I feed my dubias blended greens+vegetables+ fruits and I use dandelion greens, turnip greens, endive, escarole, mustard, collard, kale, parsley, carrots, sweet potato, squash, papaya, apple, berries, mango etc and I don't see many deaths.

Michael

 

[pssh]

All the greens you listed are higher in calcium and papayas are high calcium.

 

[rcmike]

I had been avoiding making a batch of wet gutload due to worrying about most of it wasting. I never thought about freezing it. I just mixed up a batch and put it in some cool looking outerspace and fruit shaped ice cube trays. The kids kept asking me what I was doing so I told them I was making them some treats for later. They liked the idea until I put some greens in it. That stuff looks nasty but it smells nice due to the fruit. Reminded me of some crazy bodybuilders shake or something.