Do wooden sides make the chameleons feel safer?

[Brad Ramsey]

lol, i wouldnt. he's living in that cage till the day he dies, i just built it 3 months ago. but i was wondering if you guys considered 2,3,4 to be a larger than normal cage? i cant imagine keeping him in anything smaller.

since there are so many people awake right now... lol. How would you heat my cage if you had it? i think i may have too many bulbs on top and its killing my humidity...

Your enclosure is larger than normal, but it's beautiful and there is certainly nothing wrong with having it that size.
How many bulbs do you have?
Are you trying to heat the whole thing?
You need to create a gradient from one basking spot.

-Brad

 

[wheresstimpy]

Your enclosure is larger than normal, but it's beautiful and there is certainly nothing wrong with having it that size.
How many bulbs do you have?
Are you trying to heat the whole thing?
You need to create a gradient from one basking spot.

-Brad

thanks for the compliment.
i live by the beach so it gets kinda cold and since switching to this cage i thought i would have better humidity and i dont...

i think i have a 60watt, 75 watt and a 81watt (one of the new weird sizes) and two 18" reptisun 5.0's. which are due to be changed soon come to think of it...

oh and the top has a lid on it, i know its hard to see in the pic

 

[withlime]

How would you heat my cage if you had it? i think i may have too many bulbs on top and its killing my humidity...

i think i have a 60watt, 75 watt and a 81watt (one of the new weird sizes) and two 18" reptisun 5.0's.

I would suggest a halogen flood light for over all heat (if the room temp is too cool, otherwise its probably unnecessary) and/or a halogen spot light for the basking spot. Depending how far away your basking spot is from the top, you may need a higher or lower wattage. I use "halogena" bulbs (I think from Philips) that I buy at home depot.

 

[wheresstimpy]

I would suggest a halogen flood light for over all heat (if the room temp is too cool, otherwise its probably unnecessary) and/or a halogen spot light for the basking spot. Depending how far away your basking spot is from the top, you may need a higher or lower wattage. I use "halogena" bulbs (I think from Philips) that I buy at home depot.

thanks for the tip, clyde has a habit (since i bought him like 2 years ago) of hanging upside down in his cage under the lights. he does this if its cold, warm, morning, evening, summer, winter. inside or outside in the sun. so i do have to be careful because he gets really close to the heat.

 

[withlime]

thanks for the tip, clyde has a habit (since i bought him like 2 years ago) of hanging upside down in his cage under the lights. he does this if its cold, warm, morning, evening, summer, winter. inside or outside in the sun. so i do have to be careful because he gets really close to the heat.

You definitely want to use the lowest wattage possible then. I have a cham who would do something like that he got some burns before I caught on. Use a temp probe for where he climbs and for his basking spot to make sure both are acceptable. You might also consider putting some kind of plastic mesh across the top few inches so he can't climb on the ceiling, and then you can provide a hotter basking spot.

 

[withlime]

I don't think 18x18x36 is a small cage for a 15 to 18 inch lizard.

I think this is dangerous advice to give to new cham keepers. It may have worked out okay for you, but most keepers agree that more space is better, and I think there is a reason for that. Just be wary of giving this one-size-fits-all advice to people that may not know how to apply it.

 

[wheresstimpy]

You definitely want to use the lowest wattage possible then. I have a cham who would do something like that he got some burns before I caught on. Use a temp probe for where he climbs and for his basking spot to make sure both are acceptable. You might also consider putting some kind of plastic mesh across the top few inches so he can't climb on the ceiling, and then you can provide a hotter basking spot.

i wish i had a better picture, but everyone's sleeping right now...
the top is plastic mesh. so he cant touch the lights, but he hangs right underneath them, and he gets pretty warm but, no burns (keep in mind he hangs under them for at least an hour a day usually in the morning when he goes all crazy while i get dressed and has done so for almost two years). i think i need to have less bulbs... but more heat (or at least the same). but not let it get so hot that he can injure himself... i also dont want it to get too dark in the cage. all in attempt to gain some humidity... sorry if i dont make sense.

snake cages are so much easier, lol. a radiant heat panel, a t-stat, wood, glass, and viewing light. end of story. perfect heat and humidity.

i would love to experiment with a heat panel (cause they dont dry up humidity at all), a couple 5.0 reptisuns and some of those new spiral bulbs (not uv ones) just for light and no heat. but i would like to see someone else do it first.

i hope no one thinks im thread hijacking, sorry if i am, this is just something im trying to figure out in addition with the walled up sides to create a better condition for my favorite little house dragon.

 

[withlime]

i wish i had a better picture, but everyone's sleeping right now...
the top is plastic mesh. so he cant touch the lights, but he hangs right underneath them, and he gets pretty warm but, no burns (keep in mind he hangs under them for at least an hour a day usually in the morning when he goes all crazy while i get dressed and has done so for almost two years). i think i need to have less bulbs... but more heat (or at least the same). but not let it get so hot that he can injure himself... i also dont want it to get too dark in the cage. all in attempt to gain some humidity... sorry if i dont make sense.

snake cages are so much easier, lol. a radiant heat panel t-stat, wood, glass, and viewing light. end of story. perfect heat and humidity.

i would love to experiment with a heat panel (cause they dont dry up humidity at all), a couple 5.0 reptisuns and some of those new spiral bulbs (not uv ones) just for light and no heat. but i would like to see someone else do it first.

i hope no one thinks im thread hijacking, sorry if i am, this is just something im trying to figure out in addition with the walled up sides to create a better condition for my favorite little house dragon.

What is your misting schedule like? You don't have to keep humidity at top notch all day long if they are still getting plenty of water from misting.

I have used CFLs (not the UV ones) for lighting up dark cages. I like that they don't add extra heat where I don't need it.
I suggest halogens because a flood light will gently warm and light everything and a spot will provide a direct basking spot. They also last longer than traditional household bulbs. They are more expensive, but I find they work better for me.

I don't know how well heat panels radiate heat, but if you experiment with it, please let us know!

 

[summoner12]

I don't think 18x18x36 is a small cage for a 15 to 18 inch lizard.
No one has a problem with keeping Oustaleti in 24x24x48.
I also don't compare arboreal reptiles to sea mammals.
Maybe your veiled is mad because you move him around and change his territory? Just a thought.

-Brad

I guess if you were 6' tall, having 6' ceilings would be acceptable?

I think it is foolish you suggest it is 'ok' to keep an animal in a cage that is no wider than the animal is long. Aren't you "Dedicated to superior care of all chameleons."?

I believe my veiled is unhappy with the size of his cage. It is a short term solution to a housing issue, not a long term practice and certainly not something I would suggest to anyone.

 

[wheresstimpy]

What is your misting schedule like? You don't have to keep humidity at top notch all day long if they are still getting plenty of water from misting.

I have used CFLs (not the UV ones) for lighting up dark cages. I like that they don't add extra heat where I don't need it.
I suggest halogens because a flood light will gently warm and light everything and a spot will provide a direct basking spot. They also last longer than traditional household bulbs. They are more expensive, but I find they work better for me.

I don't know how well heat panels radiate heat, but if you experiment with it, please let us know!

they work great but they will block out a pretty large section of the top where the lights go...

the mister goes off like 5 times a day for a couple minutes each time (between 2-5) i forgot exactly. it has two nozzles.

im going to look into the halogens for sure, if i do go crazy and decide to drop a bunch of cash playing with panels and stuff i will document it and let you know, lol. thanks again for the advise.

 

[summoner12]

they work great but they will block out a pretty large section of the top where the lights go...

the mister goes off like 5 times a day for a couple minutes each time (between 2-5) i forgot exactly. it has two nozzles.

im going to look into the halogens for sure, if i do go crazy and decide to drop a bunch of cash playing with panels and stuff i will document it and let you know, lol. thanks again for the advise.

The 50w PAR20 flood lamps work pretty well if the basking spot is within 8" of the top of the cage. Angle the lamp a bit and the animal should be a comfy temp. If you can't get the basking spot 8" from the lamp, the 50w PAR20 spot lamps work well too.... but they will create a very direct and hot spot.... I would be very careful with them. I wouldn't use them any closer than 12"

 

[summoner12]

CFL's do create a fair amount of heat.... I had a CFL hitting almost 200*F and it was a 24w lamp. I had some bad luck with them. The lamp's base would overheat and fail.

 

[wheresstimpy]

The 50w PAR20 flood lamps work pretty well if the basking spot is within 8" of the top of the cage. Angle the lamp a bit and the animal should be a comfy temp. If you can't get the basking spot 8" from the lamp, the 50w PAR20 spot lamps work well too.... but they will create a very direct and hot spot.... I would be very careful with them. I wouldn't use them any closer than 12"

a 50w puts off that much heat? wow, ill look into those as well (the flood, not the spot). thanks. i looked them up they are only about 8 bucks so i guess i couldn't hurt to try. What area in Brea do you live? my moms off imperial and valencia. I grew up in La Habra/ Whittier

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I think this is dangerous advice to give to new cham keepers. It may have worked out okay for you, but most keepers agree that more space is better, and I think there is a reason for that. Just be wary of giving this one-size-fits-all advice to people that may not know how to apply it.

I have spent three years preaching the dogma: "you must have a 24x24x48 cage for your male calyptratus!" and as I stated earlier, that is exactly what mine is housed in.
I do not, however, think that a well planted enclosure of smaller dimensions would be bad.
I understand your point about advice we give new keepers ... I used to say the same thing .. but what we have created is a bunch of keepers who are taking good care of their animals, but can't think outside of this box of absolute rules.
In the raising kitty blog you will find the safest advice. I was participating in a discussion here, answered a question, and I stand by what I said.
Shall I get really dangerous? All of my enclosures are planted in several inches of exposed soil

-Brad

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I guess if you were 6' tall, having 6' ceilings would be acceptable?

I think it is foolish you suggest it is 'ok' to keep an animal in a cage that is no wider than the animal is long. Aren't you "Dedicated to superior care of all chameleons."?

I believe my veiled is unhappy with the size of his cage. It is a short term solution to a housing issue, not a long term practice and certainly not something I would suggest to anyone.

Now you are comparing chameleons to humans.
Kevin, let's compare chameleons to chameleons these reptile/mammal comparisons are ???
I am dedicated to superior care of all chameleons. (that was an easy question to answer)
Perhaps the cage size is effecting your chameleons happiness ... You never said how small the temporary enclosure is ...
I still think he's mad because you moved him. They do not like change, they feel safest in a secure territory, that is theirs, that does not change.

-Brad

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I guess if you were 6' tall, having 6' ceilings would be acceptable?

I think it is foolish you suggest it is 'ok' to keep an animal in a cage that is no wider than the animal is long.

An animal that is this long tip to tip, probably has a snout to vent length of 7 inches.
So, really, I am talking about keeping a 7 inch animal in an enclosure that is 18" wide and deep.
Diagonal depth on this cage (corner to corner) is 24".

-Brad

 

[sandrachameleon]

Big chams need big cages.
I can fit you in a office cubical all your life... is that all you would need?

Agreed. Although Brad and others have raised them in smaller enclosures, that doesnt mean one should. Especially one with limited experience.
Humans can live in jail cells, where all their basic needs are met. They can live quite long lives, but I doubt they are happy with their limited spaces.
I am not saying chameleons and humans are whatsoever the same, just making a point that there is a difference between what is possible and what is preferable.

My chameleons, male and female, make use of their entire cages - all are 2 foot wide, 2 foot deep and 4 foot high. I wouldnt think of subjecting them to anything smaller.
To answer the original question, yes I do think the more or less solid sides of my cages help the chams feel secure because it blocks their sight of things they ought not see - their chameleon neighbours, the cat I used to have (the less they could see of her the better I think), even from me when I am elsewhere in the room.

 

[lisagr07]

To answer the original question, yes I do think the more or less solid sides of my cages help the chams feel secure because it blocks their sight of things they ought not see - their chameleon neighbours, the cat I used to have (the less they could see of her the better I think), even from me when I am elsewhere in the room.

thanks sandrachameleon,, i lost track of what my post was about! jk

thanks for the input guys!!!! lisa

 

[summoner12]

I think Sandra summed it up well.

Brad, maybe you should lock up this thread like you do in other threads where you don't agree with the discussions going on?

 

[summoner12]

a 50w puts off that much heat? wow, ill look into those as well (the flood, not the spot). thanks. i looked them up they are only about 8 bucks so i guess i couldn't hurt to try. What area in Brea do you live? my moms off imperial and valencia. I grew up in La Habra/ Whittier

Just the other side of the golf course from your mom. Associated and birch area...

My veiled will bask in a 50w PAR20 flood at about 8" and he is 90-95 body temp.

Home Depot sells these lamps by the case... 6 lamps. They are a lot cheaper by the case FYI. But only the flood style is available I think.......... sooooo..... I was a bad bad bad customer and I switched out two floods for spots.... lol. I use the spots in the free range for the melleri. These lamps are just used to create a warm spot along some of the vines. I find the melleri roost under them just to be warm, they don't flatten out like a satelite, they just sit on the vine below the lampzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. The lamps sit on top of the free range racking, keep them about 14-18". The flood lamps I can use in the free range (out of reach from the chams of course)