distilled vs bottled

[Davonat]

Very nice detective work Eliza.... Sounds like you have done some extensive reasearch. So what type of water do you use? Im going RO for me and all my pets for economical reasons and I can get it at my kitchen sink for a reasonable investment price. Sounds like the overall winner so far. Thanks Dave

PS... When I was a kid my dad told me distilled water was only good as a cleaning solvent He was a pilot for American Airlines out of San Diego. Im from Fallbrook originally...

 

[Elizadolots]

Very nice detective work Eliza.... Sounds like you have done some extensive reasearch. So what type of water do you use? Im going RO for me and all my pets for economical reasons and I can get it at my kitchen sink for a reasonable investment price. Sounds like the overall winner so far. Thanks Dave

Well, I read an e-zine...I honestly wasn't researching fluoride at the time. It stuck in my head because I had two friends who assumed San Diego fluoridated the water until their children started to have dental problems. I read that and thought how lucky I was to a) not have fluoridated water and b) know that the water wasn't fluoridated (we started buying fluoridated water when we learned I was pregnant 17 years ago, my daughter has wonderful teeth).

Last Christmas I bought a countertop distiller and used it for most of this year. It recently crapped out, but on researching it, I found it used about 30 cents of electricity to make a gallon of distilled water. I can buy RO water for 30 cents a gallon. So, I'm now buying (and yes, the first month's electric bill confirmed that not distilling water was saving us about 30 cents a gallon).

I'm sure it makes perfect sense to do an RO system in your house...I just don't know if I can sell that idea to my husband.

 

[Davonat]

Well..... It would make a great X Mas gift!! The system I bought on Amazon is on sale for $124.73 & that includes Free Super Saver Shipping. I dont know how to do that cut & paste stuff.... otherwise I would post a link I know I said earlier I got it on E Bay... but I was mistaken

 

[Elizadolots]

Sadly, all excess Christmas money is going to dental issues.....I hate that. But yeah, it's on my extended list!

 

[Todnedo]

I believe the reason people recommend to not drink DI or distilled water is the lack of electrolytes.

 

[Elizadolots]

I believe the reason people recommend to not drink DI or distilled water is the lack of electrolytes.

Again, not really an issue for an animal that, in the wild, drinks rain water off of leaves.

 

[Todnedo]

Again, not really an issue for an animal that, in the wild, drinks rain water off of leaves.

Rainwater contains electrolytes, Di and distilled water does not.

 

[Davonat]

OK guys...... by this afternoon I will have crystal clear RO water at my kitchen sink. No more getting it at the market. Only took me a couple hours and just a screw driver and small cresent wrench... oh ya,,,, and a drill for the faucet hole and drain pipe. Gotta wait 2 or 3 hrs for the tank to fill then flush the system till the tank is empty. This thing should pay for itself fairly quick...I drink alot of juice from concentrate. Im not sure yet how much my mister uses ..... Just got it a couple weeks ago before Ernie got here. It has a food grade 5 gallon bucket for a water supply.... it hasnt gone down much. Now I can go start Ernies new SUPER home...... This should be a good day for it... Its only 19 deg's outside!!!

 

[Zen Reptiles]

I am sorry but I am going to have to point out to several of you how stupid some of you sound lol.

First of all, bottled water can contain BPA (Bisphenol A) which is a hormone disruptor (estrogen specifically). Studies have shown this to cause amphibian and fish embryos to turn female instead of male.

Canada has BANNED this type of plastic for baby bottles because of the health issues it can cause. the USA has NO regulations on plastics or what they may contain. So by that point alone your vet is a moron to advise you to use bottled water for a small creature which can be affected much more than a human.

I have been in the water filtration business for 7 years now, and I have seen and tested all kinds of water.

Bottled water, first of all, is not always what it seems. 25% of all bottled water is TAP water with chlorine removed - there is MUCH more than chlorine that should be removed. The rest is either filtered tap water, or spring water, or distilled/RO water.

In nature, a lot of reptiles drink from puddles or streams or morning dew. These water sources are nearly void of minerals and salts. I have tested river water, creek water, and water from rain puddles. There are anywhere between 2-50 ppm in those sources.

Lake water, because it is sitting in a lake, has between 50-120 from what I have seen, and BC has a lot of lakes.

By comparison, most tap water in a good sized city is between 80-300. Well water is between 200-700.

Most bottled water (I have tested about 30 brands), are between 70-250. The best are Dasani (20ppm) and Aquafina (0-2ppm)

What are these ppm? It's not just minerals.

Some idiots believe minerals in water are good for them. Well, here is some news for you.....you may be getting some selenium and chromium in your water, which is fine, but you're ALSO getting mercury, atrazine, lead, and most of the minerals that are considered good, are in their elemental state and cannot be absorbed by the body.........in my city there are .0003 ppm of Uranium in our water. That is considered low.

However, in other cities, there are 3 ppm. yes 3. of Uranium in their tap water.

The federal guidelines are .00002 ppm.

By that standard, it is ludicrous to suggest to people that 'tap water is fine, I use tap water.' It is like saying 'I use pool water for my reptile, you should too.' When their situation may be more 'Fire retardant and fertilizer water' than 'pool water' .....it's like the difference between coffee and koolaid. They are both water by the same standard, but there are many different ingredients in them.

There are over a half million offenses against the clean water act in the US each year.

Most surface water treatment plants in North America add Aluminum Sulphate to their water as a coagulant. Many of them do not remove this Alum from the water after it's been used.

There is more Aluminum in my tap water than out of the river the city treats the water from.

If you think tap water is safe anywhere, honestly you are an idiot. I have been doing this 7 years, talked with professionals, got the OFFICIAL reports of what is in tap water for dozens of cities.

It is NEVER safe.

By North American standards, clean water = disinfected water.

It does not, by any means, mean it is free of chemicals (usually over 250 present in tap water), heavy metals, or excess minerals.

Chlorine alone is harmless, but it creates Trihalomethanes, Chloroforms, and other Volatile Organic Compounds that are VERY carcinogenetic and cause a lot of CHRONIC problems.

Know anyone that died of cancer? Odds are tap water had something to do with it. If you TRULY knew what was in the water you use on a daily basis, defend to the bitter end, and believe in.....there would be a revolution overnight.

SO much of our chronic health problems come from water.

Would you take a vitamin supplement that had lead on the list? How about mercury? Barium? What about Uranium? Not to mention DDT, Glyphosate, Atrazine?

Then why the **** would you drink water (which you're mostly made of), with so many contaminants in it.

Here is ONE article from 4 days ago to sum up what I am saying, and to show you that it is a current issue, not an issue for the 1980's. There are thousands of other articles and scientific documents explaining how BAD tap water is, AND bottled water.

http://njtoday.net/2011/12/06/congress-attacks-drinking-water/

Three years ago, North Stamford, Connecticut residents learned that their drinking water contained high levels of two long-banned, cancer-causing pesticides. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) investigators found toxic chlordane and dieldrin leaching from a former industrial dump – now a public park.

Congress is aggressively seeking to undo our clean water laws. Numerous bills passed this year by the GOP-led U.S. House of Representatives have ignored well-established scientific evidence and health risks in an attempt to dismantle or delay regulations that keep pollutants out of America’s water.

Last year, EPA finally regulated perchlorate – the first chemical regulated by EPA in 15 years. This rocket fuel is known to cause neurological problems in babies and pollutes drinking water in 26 states. Since 1996, the fiscally- and resource-strapped agency has reviewed just 138 chemicals, and failed to set drinking water safety standards for any of them; these chemicals collectively pollute the drinking water of over 110 million Americans.

Your Constitution starts with 'We The People' for a reason. You don't have to settle for this bull****.

Here is one from Canada aboot how Asian chemicals affect us in BC.

http://archives.nben.ca/environews/media/mediaarchives/98/airborn.htm

The study, part of the $80-million, seven-year Fraser River Action Plan, was conducted at Moose Lake, in Mt. Robson Provincial Park; Stuart Lake, at Fort St. James; Nicola Lake, near Merritt; and Kamloops Lake.

It suggests airborne ``persistent organic pollutants'' such as DDT and toxaphene...as well as banned PCBs, used in part as coolants in electrical transformers, can be found throughout B.C.

Those pollutants can attach themselves to particulates and ride the prevailing air currents to North America in a matter of days or weeks. Although they can just as easily travel in a south-north direction, the major source of is believed to be Asia, according to the study.

The pollutants pose a health concern because they concentrate in human and animal tissues.

Toxaphene concentrations reached an average of 600 parts per billion in burbot liver, well above the level of 6.3 ppb considered safe by the federal government for consumption by wildlife.

Hope that answers some questions for those of you who actually appreciate the TRUTH.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

And as for what water is good.

Reverse Osmosis and Distillation is the only way to get water clean. From there, you can add your own minerals. I actually add a SMALL pinch of Himalayan pink rock salt to my water. There are companies that sell mineral drops etc that you can add to clean water.

There are different grades of filters though. You want an RO that is certified by NSF and ANSI, and to a lesser importance the WQA.

You also want at least a 5 stage system. I have tested 2 stage, 3 stage, and 4 stage that only removed 30-50% of contaminants in the water.

Getting a 5 stage, it removes 97% of what is in the water.

Bottled water is NEVER reliable, and is a terrible burden on the ecosystem with plastic waste (10% is recycled), with the fuel to transport empty bottles in trucks or by ocean, and then fill them at a plant, and then transport full bottles to consumers. There is a lot of info out there on how much fossil fuel is used for the bottled water industry if you want to look it up.

Well water is the worst. No animal or culture ever dug down into the earth to get their water. Everything from the surface of the earth settles down into aquifers that feed wells. However people feel an ownership of their well water and will defend it viciously. These people are just ignorant.

In Ashcroft, there is a DUMP that the underground aquifer flows under that feeds the community's well. EVERY person there has some form of cancer or chronic, serious health issue. 53 elders died there last year (before the dump, 8-15 people would die a year).

SOME well water is okay, but with so much mining, fracturing (fraccing), and dumps and runoffs now, it is a very slim chance that your well water is okay.

Besides, you can't USE all the minerals in water, they aren't ORGANIC. They are still elemental. It's like drinking sand to get your minerals instead of eating vegetables. It makes NO sense, and your kidneys, joints, heart, and liver deal with it.

And tap water should just never be an option.

Brita filters do very little (manual says 'Not intended to purify water). They just make it taste nice without actually removing much.

And water coolers can have 2,000,000 organisms living in them because they are not air-tight, and nothing in the bottled water is going to sanitize your cooler.

I hope this information makes some of you a little more passionate about water like I am. There is a lot to it, and you have every right to this knowledge but it is often denied to you because the government can 'do whatever they want.'

 

[summoner12]

Sorry but I'm not to good to drink tap water why shouldn't my cham?

I am sorry but I am going to have to point out to several of you how stupid some of you sound lol.

First of all, bottled water can contain BPA (Bisphenol A) which is a hormone disruptor (estrogen specifically). Studies have shown this to cause amphibian and fish embryos to turn female instead of male.

Canada has BANNED this type of plastic for baby bottles because of the health issues it can cause. the USA has NO regulations on plastics or what they may contain. So by that point alone your vet is a moron to advise you to use bottled water for a small creature which can be affected much more than a human.

I have been in the water filtration business for 7 years now, and I have seen and tested all kinds of water.

Bottled water, first of all, is not always what it seems. 25% of all bottled water is TAP water with chlorine removed - there is MUCH more than chlorine that should be removed. The rest is either filtered tap water, or spring water, or distilled/RO water.

In nature, a lot of reptiles drink from puddles or streams or morning dew. These water sources are nearly void of minerals and salts. I have tested river water, creek water, and water from rain puddles. There are anywhere between 2-50 ppm in those sources.

Lake water, because it is sitting in a lake, has between 50-120 from what I have seen, and BC has a lot of lakes.

What are these ppm? It's not just minerals.

Some idiots believe minerals in water are good for them. Well, here is some news for you.....you may be getting some selenium and chromium in your water, which is fine, but you're ALSO getting mercury, atrazine, lead....in my city there are .0003 ppm of Uranium in our water. That is considered low.

However, in other cities, there are 3 ppm. yes 3. of Uranium in their tap water.

The federal guidelines are .00002 ppm.

There are over a half million offenses against the clean water act in the US each year.

Most surface water treatment plants in North America add Aluminum Sulphate to their water as a coagulant. Many of them do not remove this Alum from the water after it's been used.

There is more Aluminum in my tap water than out of the river the city treats the water from.

If you think tap water is safe anywhere, honestly you are an idiot. I have been doing this 7 years, talked with professionals, got the OFFICIAL reports of what is in tap water for dozens of cities.

It is NEVER safe.

By North American standards, clean water = disinfected water.

It does not, by any means, mean it is free of chemicals (usually over 250 present in tap water), heavy metals, or excess minerals.

Chlorine alone is harmless, but it creates Trihalomethanes, Chloroforms, and other Volatile Organic Compounds that are VERY carcinogenetic and cause a lot of CHRONIC problems.

Know anyone that died of cancer? Odds are tap water had something to do with it. If you TRULY knew what was in the water you use on a daily basis, defend to the bitter end, and believe in.....there would be a revolution overnight.

SO much of our chronic health problems come from water.

Would you take a vitamin supplement that had lead on the list? How about mercury? Barium? What about Uranium? Not to mention DDT, Glyphosate, Atrazine?

Then why the **** would you drink water (which you're mostly made of), with so many contaminants in it.

Here is ONE article from 4 days ago to sum up what I am saying, and to show you that it is a current issue, not an issue for the 1980's. There are thousands of other articles and scientific documents explaining how BAD tap water is, AND bottled water.

http://njtoday.net/2011/12/06/congress-attacks-drinking-water/







Your Constitution starts with 'We The People' for a reason. You don't have to settle for this bull****.

Here is one from Canada aboot how Asian chemicals affect us in BC.

http://archives.nben.ca/environews/media/mediaarchives/98/airborn.htm








Hope that answers some questions for those of you who actually appreciate the TRUTH.

Great post! This is why I sell water filtration as well And why I never drink tap water.

 

[summoner12]

And as for what water is good.

Reverse Osmosis and Distillation is the only way to get water clean. There are different grades though. You want an RO that is certified by NSF and ANSI, and to a lesser importance the WQA.

or a system that uses parts that are NSF/ANSI certified..... Most systems have NSF components, but NSF is so strict that you can't just say the system is 'NSF Certified' because it has NSF parts. You have to construct the system, and then have EVERYTHING tested. AND THEN, you can't change anything, make a connecting tube longer or shorter without having to re-certify. And a certification is $100,000's.

 

[Davonat]

All I can say is WOW!!!!!!.... Lets let our goverment send billions of dollars worth of..... (What will become junk) into space and let our planet die.... FREAKIN GREAT PLAN!!!!

 

[Zen Reptiles]

That's not a good argument. Space exploration is important for the future of mankind and everything else on this planet. But that's another discussion.

The problem is that America has become a Plutocracy* instead of a Republic**. And the quality of water is a huge socioeconomic issue. People are lied to that it is good, and defend that lie without knowing the truth themselves.

Benjamin Franklin (1706–90)
QUOTATION: “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”

ATTRIBUTION: The response is attributed to BENJAMIN FRANKLIN—at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, when queried as he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation—in the notes of Dr. James McHenry, one of Maryland’s delegates to the Convention.

The American people have failed at keeping it. The reason water is so bad is because corporations set the rules. Corporations are responsible for most if not all of this waste and the irresponsible disposal of it.

Capitalism is the solution to everything, but corporatism is the cause of everything.




*Plutocracy: plu·toc·ra·cy
   [ploo-tok-ruh-see]
noun, plural -cies.
1. the rule or control of society by the wealthy
2. a state or government characterized by the rule of the wealthy
3. a class that exercises power by virtue of its wealth


**Republic: re·pub·lic
   [ri-puhb-lik]
noun
1. a form of government in which the people or their elected representatives possess the supreme power
2. a political or national unit possessing such a form of government
3. a constitutional form in which the head of state is an elected or nominated president .





Unfortunately, just having the Democrat and Republican party eliminates what a Republic is. Say you wanted to vote for Ron Paul this year (which you'd have to be crazy not to), but you're a Democrat.

You have to register as a Republican 12 weeks prior to the Republican primaries, in order to vote Ron Paul to be the Republican candidate.

That is a loophole that will keep America in the dark Plutocracy that it is for many decades to come. It means you really don't have a choice. You only choose between who was chosen for you.....and regardless, it is the White House Team that is the true President, and I bet 99% of the people reading this don't know who they are, and many of those fat cats have been in there for decades irregardless of who the President Elect is.

It's things like this that are the reason the cancer rate is 1 in 5, that 1 out of every 8 women will get breast cancer. That diabetes is an epidemic. That wheat and dairy and sugar is such a huge part of people's diets. Things that touch every individual's life in a negative way, because the companies that manufacture the products and chemicals that cause these diseases are the true Kings of America.

 

[Davonat]

Zen or Summoner...... The reviews on my RO system say that people were getting 10 TDS - 19 PPM water readings....... is this good? Mediocre or still not so great? No need to get real technical... is it safe for me and my pets? The only bad reviews were installation problems or 1 unit had a broken part. I had none of these problems.

One more thing....... Didnt mean to say space exploration was a waste of time. I just think it sounds like we could be doing alot more about cleaning up the planet we have now....

 

[Todnedo]

That's not a good argument. Space exploration is important for the future of mankind and everything else on this planet. But that's another discussion.

The problem is that America has become a Plutocracy* instead of a Republic**. And the quality of water is a huge socioeconomic issue. People are lied to that it is good, and defend that lie without knowing the truth themselves.



The American people have failed at keeping it. The reason water is so bad is because corporations set the rules. Corporations are responsible for most if not all of this waste and the irresponsible disposal of it.

Capitalism is the solution to everything, but corporatism is the cause of everything.




*Plutocracy: plu·toc·ra·cy
   [ploo-tok-ruh-see]
noun, plural -cies.
1. the rule or control of society by the wealthy
2. a state or government characterized by the rule of the wealthy
3. a class that exercises power by virtue of its wealth


**Republic: re·pub·lic
   [ri-puhb-lik]
noun
1. a form of government in which the people or their elected representatives possess the supreme power
2. a political or national unit possessing such a form of government
3. a constitutional form in which the head of state is an elected or nominated president .





Unfortunately, just having the Democrat and Republican party eliminates what a Republic is. Say you wanted to vote for Ron Paul this year (which you'd have to be crazy not to), but you're a Democrat.

You have to register as a Republican 12 weeks prior to the Republican primaries, in order to vote Ron Paul to be the Republican candidate.

That is a loophole that will keep America in the dark Plutocracy that it is for many decades to come. It means you really don't have a choice. You only choose between who was chosen for you.....and regardless, it is the White House Team that is the true President, and I bet 99% of the people reading this don't know who they are, and many of those fat cats have been in there for decades irregardless of who the President Elect is.

It's things like this that are the reason the cancer rate is 1 in 5, that 1 out of every 8 women will get breast cancer. That diabetes is an epidemic. That wheat and dairy and sugar is such a huge part of people's diets. Things that touch every individual's life in a negative way, because the companies that manufacture the products and chemicals that cause these diseases are the true Kings of America.

well said, George had the same veiws http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjbUnvFvgyg&feature=fvst

 

[Elizadolots]

Zen or Summoner...... The reviews on my RO system say that people were getting 10 TDS - 19 PPM water readings....... is this good? Mediocre or still not so great? No need to get real technical... is it safe for me and my pets? The only bad reviews were installation problems or 1 unit had a broken part. I had none of these problems.

I think you have to take it that any cleaning of the water is better than not doing it. The lower the parts per million, the less chance of toxicity issues. The body can clear out low levels of contamenents.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Generally under 30 is pretty good. Under 10 is optimal, under 5 is fantastic. You should get a system that is suited for your type of water (well, tap, hard, soft)

On a good system, those particles are going to actually be particles from the filters, like carbon or charcoal, and not so much from the original treated water.

 

[Davonat]

Generally under 30 is pretty good. Under 10 is optimal, under 5 is fantastic. You should get a system that is suited for your type of water (well, tap, hard, soft)

On a good system, those particles are going to actually be particles from the filters, like carbon or charcoal, and not so much from the original treated water.

So.... my 19 ppm is "pretty good"....? What is the 10 TDS? Is that also good enough? I guess you should explain these terms to me better.. PPM is parts per million? TDS .. Total disolved solutions? Or just say me and my cat, Panther Cham and Betta fish will do fine with what I have I live in an Apt... With city water.So since this is now fixed to it... It will have to stay when I leave. Not planning to, soon anyway. Im not buying a better system.... My coffe sure does taste better! Im going to the hardware store shortly to get a T fitting & hook my ice maker to it.Thanx Dave

 

[Zen Reptiles]

You'll be amazed how clear your ice is LOL. The first comment we get from customers is about their coffee, so it's funny you say that.


19 TDS is great, if it is a new system, most of that is probably from the filters and harmless carbon particles. Over a month or so it should go down to 5-12.

TDS and PPM and mg/L are all generally the same things. Just different ways of saying it - like meters and inches.

TDS = Total Dissolved Solids. This is everything solid in the water. Without a proper analysis it could be anything. Carbon, Uranium. Who knows. Odds are it is carbon since RO uses 2 or more carbon & charcoal filters. Especially new systems where the filters are getting 'activated' and giving off some particles as water runs through them.

PPM and mg/L = is a more scientific measurement of each individual item in the water. You could say that each ppm combined is TDS.

ps. they are easy to uninstall and take with you when you go. You just cap the connections to the cold water and drain, and take the system with you.


Edit: Do you know the TDS of your tap water? City Hall or your Municipal Water Treatment Facility will be able to tell you. A good RO will take 70% of the stuff out, whereas a great RO will take over 90%, the best take 97%-99% of everything out.

From experience, if it is reading 19 TDS after going through the RO, it has been running for over a month, and has been flushed properly, your tap TDS is probably over 300.

However, if it is a new system and hasn't been completely flushed (drained completely at once, two times) if it is reading 19 TDS new your tap TDS could be anywhere from 70-150.

It REALLY depends on your system, and the source water. Finding the TDS of your tap water will give you the answer of how good a system you got.