Different treats...

Kittyrocc

New Member
Good Morning all....

My baby veiled chamy:p (3-4 months old) has been eating crickets only... this weekend I bought him some mealworms and he devoured 3 of them....

I wanted to get some superworms but they were way to big for his itty bitty mouth.... :p

What other foods could he have? :confused:

I read mealworms weren't that good for him and neither superworms....

Is there another insect he can have that would be healthy for him?
 

kaylie

New Member
Phoenix worms (aka calcium worms or reptiworms). And if he doesn't like them, keep the container, they will eventually pupate and turn into soldier flies.
Oh, and flies are good. You can order house flies or blue bottle flies (which are a little bigger than house flies)
 

sdheli420

Established Member
i never use meal worms just for the horror stories ive heard ( if the head is not crunched on there is a chance it will chew its way out from the inside of yer cham..) ied stick with the after mentioned treats..imo..
 

Kittyrocc

New Member
i never use meal worms just for the horror stories ive heard ( if the head is not crunched on there is a chance it will chew its way out from the inside of yer cham..) ied stick with the after mentioned treats..imo..
OMG that's horrible:eek:!! I will never use them again!!!! Thank you!
 

sdheli420

Established Member
When your cham is big enough to eat them, you can chop the heads off superworms (they have the same story) before feeding if it makes you feel better.
good point..if you like the nutrition facts on them do that..at least the safest way!!

(personally, i like exotic feeders for my exotic lil chams, i can go to a typical bait n tackle shop to get mealies and "super worms" witch are just bigger meal worms..i figure..good for fishing cause they just dont die easy..they wiggle underwater for like 20 mins..makes sense that they would do the same in a stomach..lol)
 

jessica

Avid Member
i never use meal worms just for the horror stories ive heard ( if the head is not crunched on there is a chance it will chew its way out from the inside of yer cham..) ied stick with the after mentioned treats..imo..

This is a myth, if your chams chewing doesn't kill it the stomach acid will.

OP- Meal worms just have a high chitin ratio and can cause BM problems if feed to often. Members have listed some great choices, you can also order house flies or Blue Bottle flies.
 

sdheli420

Established Member
def. NOT A MYTH..!!!! I have seen pics and had friends that told me the horror stories....and its not just chameleons..a friend that was a breeder of leopard geckos had one get this (it IS VERY rare, but can and will happen)


Just like the giant squid (found just recentley and proven to actually exist) people dont beleive something is true till they see it themselfs...ied rather not see it my self...

just imo...
 

jessica

Avid Member
def. NOT A MYTH..!!!! I have seen pics and had friends that told me the horror stories....and its not just chameleons..a friend that was a breeder of leopard geckos had one get this (it IS VERY rare, but can and will happen)


Just like the giant squid (found just recentley and proven to actually exist) people dont beleive something is true till they see it themselfs...ied rather not see it my self...

just imo...

Wheres the proof? A friend told you? I've had many friends exaggerate situations lol Hey I never doubted a squid but I will doubt a Meal worm can with stand stomach acid. I've seen meal worms drown in a drop of water.

Sorry OP not going to turn this into a debate.
 

sdheli420

Established Member
not debating you..i dont debate when i have seen proof my self..( i always love when people say "show me proof" then when they are shown proof they will figure out some new excuse to disprove it)..its all good ..keep feeding your super-death-worms to yer chams..one day it just mite happen, maybe it wont..ied rather wear a helmet and NOT risk the chance of brain damage


again JUST MY IMO..not they way the world should be run...
 

sdheli420

Established Member
not debating you..i dont debate when i have seen proof my self..( i always love when people say "show me proof" then when they are shown proof they will figure out some new excuse to disprove it)..its all good ..keep feeding your super-death-worms to yer chams..one day it just mite happen, maybe it wont..ied rather wear a helmet and NOT risk the chance of brain damage


again JUST MY IMO..not they way the world should be run...
k i found an old post (not from me tho, and on a different forum)

02-07-2008, 10:19 PM
There is some debate over whether or not mealworms/superworms pose a threat to the animals that eat them by eating up their insides or even their way out of those animals. Most will flat out tell you it is a myth, urban legend, lie, etc. However, there is a lot of information out there to the contrary.

The usual opposition is supported by the fact that they themselves nor anyone they know has had this happen to them. They cite how many they feed and how many someone they know feeds and if they have not had it happen to them then it is an urban legend and never happens to anyone.

When cases arise that do support this, those who disagree with it state that it was simply that the animal died and that loose mealworms in the enclosure chewed their way into the dead or dying animal. For me to say that this is never the case would be using the same blinded logic I find wrong in their argument. Many of the cases involving mealworms 'chewing their way in' are cases where the hole happens to go straight to the stomach. If they chewed their way in they would in most cases chew up a lot as they go, not go straight from the outside (very tough skin to chew through from the outside by the way) straight to the stomach. Chewing from within would first remove the supportive tissue that helps make the skin so tough. This would make it much easier to get through the skin from the inside than from the outside where the mealworm is simply faced with tough skin support by all of its intact suppportive tissue. It does not make sense that in these cases it would always be a mealworm chewing its way through reptile skin and then going straight to the stomach. Much more logical is them chewing their way from the stomach, straight out.

I was fortunate enough to talk to a veterinarian about this who happened to have first hand experience with a significant case involving this. He described the case where someone brought in a suddenly lethargic bearded dragon that had stopped eating and had a lump on its belly. Thinking it was an abscess, the vet started to cut it open, only to find the head of an intact mealworm. The mealworm was still alive and was no longer contained within the stomach, but had chewed through it. The mealworm ha dmade its way to just below the surface of the skin when the vet cut it open. This was not a case where a worm had chewed its way completely out, but was in the process of coming out.

One problem is that if they do not make their way out and the animal dies, almost never does the keeper get a necropsy done. There was no external evidence that a mealworm was to blame, but if it didn't make it out there wouldn't be and yet it could still kill them. In larger animals like bearded dragons this would be more likely to happen than for the mealworm to make its way completely out.

People have done home experiments showing that mealworms can last surprisingly long submerged in water. Others have shown how even the severed head can still function for some period of time. These show that the immediate lack of oxygen and even crunching of the animal may not in all cases kill the mealworm and that is can still be alive long enough to do harm inside the animal.

In addition these are not always cases that are observed after it has happened. I have talked to a number of people who have FIRST-HAND watched with their own eyes as the animal ate a mealworm, then started to act sick, and within ten to twenty seconds the mealworm is chewing out of the animal's stomach. They did not come home to find it dead with a hole in its stomach and make an assumption, they WATCHED IT AS IT HAPPENED. This seems to be the case with smaller animals like anoles. But if a small mealworm can do that to an anole, isn't it reasonable that in some cases of 'mystery deaths' in things like beardies where it stops eating and dies shortly after, that actually a mealworm/superworm made its way out of the stomach but not out of the body? This would leave no external evidence of it being the mealworm, but could still kill the animal.

In science you cannot truly prove that something does not happen. You can fail to support it, but you cannot prove that it does not happen. In situations like this, just because 1,000 people have not had it happen to them does not mean it is impossible to happen. It only takes one incident to prove that it can happen. Yet even when these cases come up, others who already believe the contrary TELL THAT PERSON WHAT THEY SAW. This blinded, all-knowing attitude could be leading to more deaths.

There is no doubt that this can happen. The only debate really lies in whether it is risky enough to warrant not feeding mealworms.

Can it happen? Absolutely. Is it likely? Not at all. Is it too risky to feed mealworms? That is the keeper's decision.
 

KatCham

Established Member
Well I've just come to the conclusion that as Morio worms are too big for Simba to eat, the 'small morios' I requested must infact be mealworms.

Therefore I have decided to let them all pupate and become beetles before I feed them to Simba.

Ewwwww how gross to imagine that happening let alone see it!!!

He's loving the fruit flies at the mo. I've also got small dubia roaches and wax worms.

I'm going to go and order some small locusts and maybe I'll give the bean weevils a shot too.
 

jessica

Avid Member
k i found an old post (not from me tho, and on a different forum)

02-07-2008, 10:19 PM
There is some debate over whether or not mealworms/superworms pose a threat to the animals that eat them by eating up their insides or even their way out of those animals. Most will flat out tell you it is a myth, urban legend, lie, etc. However, there is a lot of information out there to the contrary.

The usual opposition is supported by the fact that they themselves nor anyone they know has had this happen to them. They cite how many they feed and how many someone they know feeds and if they have not had it happen to them then it is an urban legend and never happens to anyone.

When cases arise that do support this, those who disagree with it state that it was simply that the animal died and that loose mealworms in the enclosure chewed their way into the dead or dying animal. For me to say that this is never the case would be using the same blinded logic I find wrong in their argument. Many of the cases involving mealworms 'chewing their way in' are cases where the hole happens to go straight to the stomach. If they chewed their way in they would in most cases chew up a lot as they go, not go straight from the outside (very tough skin to chew through from the outside by the way) straight to the stomach. Chewing from within would first remove the supportive tissue that helps make the skin so tough. This would make it much easier to get through the skin from the inside than from the outside where the mealworm is simply faced with tough skin support by all of its intact suppportive tissue. It does not make sense that in these cases it would always be a mealworm chewing its way through reptile skin and then going straight to the stomach. Much more logical is them chewing their way from the stomach, straight out.

I was fortunate enough to talk to a veterinarian about this who happened to have first hand experience with a significant case involving this. He described the case where someone brought in a suddenly lethargic bearded dragon that had stopped eating and had a lump on its belly. Thinking it was an abscess, the vet started to cut it open, only to find the head of an intact mealworm. The mealworm was still alive and was no longer contained within the stomach, but had chewed through it. The mealworm ha dmade its way to just below the surface of the skin when the vet cut it open. This was not a case where a worm had chewed its way completely out, but was in the process of coming out.

One problem is that if they do not make their way out and the animal dies, almost never does the keeper get a necropsy done. There was no external evidence that a mealworm was to blame, but if it didn't make it out there wouldn't be and yet it could still kill them. In larger animals like bearded dragons this would be more likely to happen than for the mealworm to make its way completely out.

People have done home experiments showing that mealworms can last surprisingly long submerged in water. Others have shown how even the severed head can still function for some period of time. These show that the immediate lack of oxygen and even crunching of the animal may not in all cases kill the mealworm and that is can still be alive long enough to do harm inside the animal.

In addition these are not always cases that are observed after it has happened. I have talked to a number of people who have FIRST-HAND watched with their own eyes as the animal ate a mealworm, then started to act sick, and within ten to twenty seconds the mealworm is chewing out of the animal's stomach. They did not come home to find it dead with a hole in its stomach and make an assumption, they WATCHED IT AS IT HAPPENED. This seems to be the case with smaller animals like anoles. But if a small mealworm can do that to an anole, isn't it reasonable that in some cases of 'mystery deaths' in things like beardies where it stops eating and dies shortly after, that actually a mealworm/superworm made its way out of the stomach but not out of the body? This would leave no external evidence of it being the mealworm, but could still kill the animal.

In science you cannot truly prove that something does not happen. You can fail to support it, but you cannot prove that it does not happen. In situations like this, just because 1,000 people have not had it happen to them does not mean it is impossible to happen. It only takes one incident to prove that it can happen. Yet even when these cases come up, others who already believe the contrary TELL THAT PERSON WHAT THEY SAW. This blinded, all-knowing attitude could be leading to more deaths.

There is no doubt that this can happen. The only debate really lies in whether it is risky enough to warrant not feeding mealworms.

Can it happen? Absolutely. Is it likely? Not at all. Is it too risky to feed mealworms? That is the keeper's decision.

LMAO you're funny. I don't feed any of my chameleons Meal worms or what you like to call "Death worms" lol I have plenty of other nutritious feeders.

But this thread isn't about what I feed my chameleons now is it.


OP you have so many other options a lot of which are listed when this thread was relevant.
 

sdheli420

Established Member
no its not..its just my opinion on "death" worms LOL thats all..it scared the crap outta me when i heard about this back in 1998 so i just completley stopped with the meal worms, superworms (or whatever worms..the ones with the light orange color and a hard outter body, they are used normally for fishing..those worms)..thats all..

but to be honest i like the hornworms better..taste better when battered and fried....lmao jk
 

Perceus

New Member
My little guy likes silk worms. They are small and soft. I didnt look too close but im not seeing fangs. LMAO!!:p
 
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