did something happen to his tounge?

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
Did any of the vets mention the possibility of hypocalcemia? The early symptoms are paralysis of the tongue .
Do you lightly dust all /some feeders with your 4 part supplement schedule or quite heavily coat them
If it is a tongue bacterial infection maybe in sheathing hopefully the broad-spectrum antibiotics are effective on it.
But you might need blood work done to check calcium levels if tongue doesn't heal up after the course of antibiotics &maybe insist the exotic specialist examine your chameleon just to be sure the general vet missed something

The vet found "trauma to the tongue on one side". Its not D3/vitA/MBD/husbandry issue. Either the feeder got in a few good hits on the tongue, or the cham did it himself while catching/killing (he is one of those that like to bash the feeder against something).
 

Pickle-cham

Avid Member
The vet found "trauma to the tongue on one side". Its not D3/vitA/MBD/husbandry issue. Either the feeder got in a few good hits on the tongue, or the cham did it himself while catching/killing (he is one of those that like to bash the feeder against something).
Ok i have a jaws of death bite down killer no experience with a bash it off stuff.
But op also said the exotics specialist wasn't available when getting an examination
 

Pickle-cham

Avid Member
The vet found "trauma to the tongue on one side". Its not D3/vitA/MBD/husbandry issue. Either the feeder got in a few good hits on the tongue, or the cham did it himself while catching/killing (he is one of those that like to bash the feeder against something).
The op also stated "somewhat dehydrated" how would this be if theres no husbandry issues? Hypocalcemia can be due to renal failure as well as lack of calcium & or imbalance of phosphorus or D3 toxicity
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
I would not offer him any food at all for a few days and just let him rest his tongue. When you do start to feed again don’t let him shoot his tongue. Put the feeder right up to his mouth so his tongue can continue to rest. After a week or so slowly allow him to start using his tongue again.
Also, when one of my chameleons has this problem my vet normally gives an antinflamatory such as medicam or meloxicam.
 

Pickle-cham

Avid Member
The fact the chameleon is using a clubbing the feeder to death method (im not familiar with this) not an indication that the tongue is weakened ie a symptom.
I thought the natural take down of prey is to hit it with tongue with such a force as to stun it long enough to retract it back to the super sharp teeth for that killer blow its not as if they use them teeth for much else🤔
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
The op also stated "somewhat dehydrated" how would this be if theres no husbandry issues? Hypocalcemia can be due to renal failure as well as lack of calcium & or imbalance of phosphorus or D3 toxicity

Im guessing the somewht dehydrated was the cham sucking in its eyes in stress/protest of begin handled, and the trauma to the tongue.

Im not saying we can not rule out phosphorus or D3 toxicity, but this was an acute injury. Can phosphorus or D3 toxicity cause a higher risk of injury from weaken? Ive only seen phosphorus or D3 toxicity cause "my chameleon keeps missing its shots" or "my chameleon has half its normal range" as the slow degradation happens.
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
The fact the chameleon is using a clubbing the feeder to death method (im not familiar with this) not an indication that the tongue is weakened ie a symptom.
I thought the natural take down of prey is to hit it with tongue with such a force as to stun it long enough to retract it back to the super sharp teeth for that killer blow its not as if they use them teeth for much else🤔

Oh i have had lots o creative chams.

shoot and reel it in, and then "wait for it to die" for 10min. While others insta chew and swallow.

Ive had bashers before, shoot, chop, then beat or smear it on something for a minute. Not sure if its waiting for the prey to stop moving, or just wants to reposition for the swallow.

I think the worst offenders are the ones that shoot a "soft long feeder" then whip it back and forth like a fire hose, and half the time the feeder breaks up and they get guts everywhere.


Why cant they all just shoot and chew like normal...
 

Pickle-cham

Avid Member
Im guessing the somewht dehydrated was the cham sucking in its eyes in stress/protest of begin handled, and the trauma to the tongue.

Im not saying we can not rule out phosphorus or D3 toxicity, but this was an acute injury. Can phosphorus or D3 toxicity cause a higher risk of injury from weaken? Ive only seen phosphorus or D3 toxicity cause "my chameleon keeps missing its shots" or "my chameleon has half its normal range" as the slow degradation happens.

Would seem op isn't happy with the vets diagnosis of the trauma on tongue i guess they have to either except there prognosis & hope it clears up or get a second opinion tbh
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
(he is one of those that like to bash the feeder against something).
Ok i have a jaws of death bite down killer no experience with a bash it off stuff.
The fact the chameleon is using a clubbing the feeder to death method
Oh i have had lots o creative chams.

shoot and reel it in, and then "wait for it to die" for 10min. While others insta chew and swallow.

Ive had bashers before, shoot, chop, then beat or smear it on something for a minute. Not sure if its waiting for the prey to stop moving, or just wants to reposition for the swallow.

I think the worst offenders are the ones that shoot a "soft long feeder" then whip it back and forth like a fire hose, and half the time the feeder breaks up and they get guts everywhere.

Why cant they all just shoot and chew like normal...
Wow! So much diversity & high drama! :eek:

zefrank1 or Gingero (or someone) should maybe make a video showing & describing all the different hunter-killer-devourer methods employed by chameleons.

I seem to have one of the boring "normal"s....
Zot!...Yoink!...Munch...Munch...Munch...GULP! 🥱
 

Pickle-cham

Avid Member
Wow! So much diversity & high drama! :eek:

zefrank1 or Gingero (or someone) should maybe make a video showing & describing all the different hunter-killer-devourer methods employed by chameleons.

I seem to have one of the boring "normal"s....
Zot!...Yoink!...Munch...Munch...Munch...GULP! 🥱
PXL_20210309_094840969~2_exported_13576_1615408324452.jpg
Here is the killer blow she does sometimes keep hold in mouth untill all the nerves have stopped twitching 😅
Unless its a worm i have never seen her not make a perfect head shot aswell always as if she is only after the compound eyes
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
Here is the killer blow she does sometimes keep hold in mouth untill all the nerves have stopped twitching 😅
Unless its a worm i have never seen her not make a perfect head shot aswell always as if she is only after the compound eyes
Wow, that looks huge. Does it pass the "as long as it fits between their eyes" test?
 

Pickle-cham

Avid Member
Wow, that looks huge. Does it pass the "as long as it fits between their eyes" test?
Yeah she has no problem they are longer than between eyes but width is ok and i remove barbed back legs.
As i have kept them in exo-terra large faunarium they have become gregarious (rubbed against each other) which makes them slightly smaller than the solitary desert locustPXL_20210309_214203396.jpg
 

GrayMadder

Chameleon Enthusiast
Yeah she has no problem they are longer than between eyes but width is ok and i remove barbed back legs.
As i have kept them in exo-terra large faunarium they have become gregarious (rubbed against each other) which makes them slightly smaller than the solitary desert locustView attachment 295383
Omg!! This is awesome and terrifying at the same time. Haha! Love the pic you posted of your cham eating one!
 

RescueMom

Avid Member
Ok so it is probably a lo dose. You could cut them out for a week and see if it helps. Though the chance of s feeder bite is low, it is not 0. The gaping with no RI and an antibiotic just in case suggests that the air way is restricted. Can you get a look at his air way when he breathes, you can see it open. Does it look swollen or discolored ? It may be that there is a small injury, or he accidently got some bug juice's down his pipe. His tongue does not look particularly swollen. The fact that it is coupled with the gaping is what is odd.
When I took him to the second vet on Monday (a week ago) she was very thorough. The only thing she saw was the trauma at the base of the right side of the tongue. After the swelling in his neck started to go down, and he started to breath normally (mouth closed), it look like he had something stuck in his throat. When we were kids we'd pull the skin on our neck out and say "mommy, I swallowed my toothbrush". that's what it looked like, but it's just about back to normal now.
Did the vet not give you a prognosis? If not, it's not unreasonable to call or email and ask for one.
The vet that saw him last Monday called me on Friday to check on him. I asked her to clarify for me what she explained at the appt. She said she saw trauma at the base of the tongue with swelling and edema. She said it was very possible that it was a bite from the hornworm. She said that it was too early to say whether or not he would get the use of his tongue back, since he was healing on "chameleon time" 🐢
Concerning your chameleon's tongue...if it is a bite, I hope the swelling will go down. If it is a bite, it likely wouldn't be a bad idea to continue with the meds the vet gave you, to make sure it doesn't get infected.
the vet that I took him to on Monday said that it was ill-advised to continue him on the antibiotics that were given by the emergency vet on Saturday for 2 reasons. first, there was no sign of infection or any open wound that would become infected. second, she said it would add undo stress and cause him additional pain fighting to medicate him, as well as the possibility of causing him to further injure his tongue.
I would not offer him any food at all for a few days and just let him rest his tongue. When you do start to feed again don’t let him shoot his tongue. Put the feeder right up to his mouth so his tongue can continue to rest. After a week or so slowly allow him to start using his tongue again.
the vet that said not to give the antibiotics gave him 7 days of anti-inflammatory/pain medicine to be given to him via a feeder, so I did this using a superworm daily. I didn't let him shoot his tongue out further than he had to.
Did any of the vets mention the possibility of hypocalcemia? The early symptoms are paralysis of the tongue .
Do you lightly dust all /some feeders with your 4 part supplement schedule or quite heavily coat them
If it is a tongue bacterial infection maybe in sheathing hopefully the broad-spectrum antibiotics are effective on it.
But you might need blood work done to check calcium levels if tongue doesn't heal up after the course of antibiotics &maybe insist the exotic specialist examine your chameleon just to be sure the general vet missed something
Neither vet said he had any signs of health issues what-so-ever and both reviewed his husbandry and said it was spot-on. The emergency vet (who prescribed the antibiotic) didn't even see the trauma to the tongue.
I do my best to lightly dust his feeders. If any of them accidently get to heavily coated, I toss them back, or let them play in the water for a while before he gets them (since they're gutloaded the day before

The op also stated "somewhat dehydrated" how would this be if theres no husbandry issues? Hypocalcemia can be due to renal failure as well as lack of calcium & or imbalance of phosphorus or D3 toxicity
I didn't question the "somewhat dehydrated" issue the emergency vet stated she saw. He had been traumatized in mid- January by the horrible Monsoon mister I had in his cage (it blasted him in the face and he nearly fell backward off the branch). When I saw that, I immediately replaced it with the Climist system, but he still stares at the nozzle when he has to go near it and turns away from the mist when it comes on. I've just recently notice him sitting beneath the mist, rinsing his eyes. My 2 previous chams loved the mist, so I'm hoping he's on the way to getting over his fear. I do have a dripper for him as well, and I watch his urates

Also, when one of my chameleons has this problem my vet normally gives an antinflamatory such as medicam or meloxicam.
the second vet, that said not to give the antibiotic, did prescribe meloxicam for the pain and edema, and it seems to have done the trick!
I also called to make an appt with Dr Tracy Anderson, but she's not at that clinic anymore. I thought you'd like to have her new info to update your records. She is now at Countryside Animal Hospital, 2740 Curlew Rd, Clearwater 727-785-1211. She was booked out 1 month and not taking new patients. The good news is though, he's started using his tongue again so I didn't need to take him anywhere else after all 😰
 

CasqueAbove

Chameleon Enthusiast
When I took him to the second vet on Monday (a week ago) she was very thorough. The only thing she saw was the trauma at the base of the right side of the tongue. After the swelling in his neck started to go down, and he started to breath normally (mouth closed), it look like he had something stuck in his throat. When we were kids we'd pull the skin on our neck out and say "mommy, I swallowed my toothbrush". that's what it looked like, but it's just about back to normal now.

The vet that saw him last Monday called me on Friday to check on him. I asked her to clarify for me what she explained at the appt. She said she saw trauma at the base of the tongue with swelling and edema. She said it was very possible that it was a bite from the hornworm. She said that it was too early to say whether or not he would get the use of his tongue back, since he was healing on "chameleon time" 🐢

the vet that I took him to on Monday said that it was ill-advised to continue him on the antibiotics that were given by the emergency vet on Saturday for 2 reasons. first, there was no sign of infection or any open wound that would become infected. second, she said it would add undo stress and cause him additional pain fighting to medicate him, as well as the possibility of causing him to further injure his tongue.

the vet that said not to give the antibiotics gave him 7 days of anti-inflammatory/pain medicine to be given to him via a feeder, so I did this using a superworm daily. I didn't let him shoot his tongue out further than he had to.

Neither vet said he had any signs of health issues what-so-ever and both reviewed his husbandry and said it was spot-on. The emergency vet (who prescribed the antibiotic) didn't even see the trauma to the tongue.
I do my best to lightly dust his feeders. If any of them accidently get to heavily coated, I toss them back, or let them play in the water for a while before he gets them (since they're gutloaded the day before


I didn't question the "somewhat dehydrated" issue the emergency vet stated she saw. He had been traumatized in mid- January by the horrible Monsoon mister I had in his cage (it blasted him in the face and he nearly fell backward off the branch). When I saw that, I immediately replaced it with the Climist system, but he still stares at the nozzle when he has to go near it and turns away from the mist when it comes on. I've just recently notice him sitting beneath the mist, rinsing his eyes. My 2 previous chams loved the mist, so I'm hoping he's on the way to getting over his fear. I do have a dripper for him as well, and I watch his urates


the second vet, that said not to give the antibiotic, did prescribe meloxicam for the pain and edema, and it seems to have done the trick!
I also called to make an appt with Dr Tracy Anderson, but she's not at that clinic anymore. I thought you'd like to have her new info to update your records. She is now at Countryside Animal Hospital, 2740 Curlew Rd, Clearwater 727-785-1211. She was booked out 1 month and not taking new patients. The good news is though, he's started using his tongue again so I didn't need to take him anywhere else after all 😰

Great follow up. We love this. We can only see so much so we love to see things verified by good vets. Soo happy he is doing well.
 

RescueMom

Avid Member
It's been a long week, but I wanted to thank you all for your input about my little Snogzilla.
After he had his last day of the meloxicam via super worm, he smacked a wax worm out of my hand from about 6 inches away! I don't know who was more surprised, me or him! Today he did the same to get a couple of crickets from his shooting gallery, but I used the tongs to feed him the rest.
So I don't know if I'll ever feed him hornworms again. If I do, I'll probably murder them first
🤣
 

RescueMom

Avid Member
Great follow up. We love this. We can only see so much so we love to see things verified by good vets. Soo happy he is doing well.
sorry it took so long to respond to all the replies, but thank you again!!
and I can't believe the vet that knew her stuff was this little country doctor rather than the big time fancy one in Tampa! She'll be my regular vet from now on, no doubt about that!
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
It's been a long week, but I wanted to thank you all for your input about my little Snogzilla.
After he had his last day of the meloxicam via super worm, he smacked a wax worm out of my hand from about 6 inches away! I don't know who was more surprised, me or him! Today he did the same to get a couple of crickets from his shooting gallery, but I used the tongs to feed him the rest.
So I don't know if I'll ever feed him hornworms again. If I do, I'll probably murder them first
🤣

I’m so glad to hear he is better. I highly recommend not feeding with tongs because they can damage the tongue.
 

RescueMom

Avid Member
I’m so glad to hear he is better. I highly recommend not feeding with tongs because they can damage the tongue.
He is very trusting of me when I feed him. I can also hold the cricket by it's back end (it pees on me, but whatever) and he'll eat it from my fingers, even an inch or so away from his mouth. He cares more about his food than he does me being that close to him. If I didn't have a feeder for him, that wouldn't be happening !
 
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