Deadly Chameleon Myth series

[LizardLurkin]

I've just lurked this thread because some interesting discussion is coming out of it.

I know I for one am never a fan of people on the internet accusing one of killing their pets, throwing all sorts of words at them. 100%, there are some terrible people out there, and ignorance does harm animals all the time, but I don't think it's a helpful modality. I think it pushes people into standing their ground and being stubborn more than anything, because they feel like they have to defend themselves.
But in general, I don't believe in tough love.
I can understand using buzzwords like pain, suffering, certain death to encourage change, but I don't know if it's the kind of phrasing that fills me with motivation rather than dread and self doubt.
But I do understand it comes from a place of loving the animals.
It's just, individual people? We can be pretty sensitive, and we are deserving of compassion and understanding too.

Re: enclosures and pet keeping in general
I operate as far away from pet guilt as I can. So many reptiles are put out there in the pet trade, and I don't know how to phrase it exactly but...A lot of people will guilt people for buying from big box stores, and I totally understand the reasoning but...That's an entire life behind those glass enclosures. It's a life worth living, if that individual speaks to you. I think without the potential for impulse, we wouldn't have a lot of the star players we have here today. Those who became so, sooo knowledgeable about chameleons and willing to help...And now you all are committed to giving your chams, or other reptiles, the best homes you can. I think the intent of everyone here is far more important than being sad about how they're not living the same as their wild counterparts. That cute petsmart baby chameleon was never going to have that, and might've not even had a 2x2x4!!! I just think what I see here is awesome and pushes far beyond the boundaries I see for a lot of other reptiles, so I don't think anyone should feel bad for the fact that they're in a cage for their lives...In the wild they live like 3 years. I think that the lifespan of chameleons is going up in captivity is a beautiful thing personally. I love to know that they can reach 6, 7, or who knows what under the specialized care advice given here.

Aaaand I'm yapping, but. Yeah. If I get a lot of money and more space, I am always taking it to mind, the double wide enclosures @MissSkittles. Chameleons are so active, I just know all the sapce would get used.

 

[kinyonga]

@Sticktongue …you said…”For my dry dry dry air in Idaho… solid sided cages with fog works WAY better than screen, or even 3 sided and screen fronts.. it simply isn’t ideal and IMO not cutting the mustard unless they are 4 solid sides. If I said that 15 years ago on here I would been crucified”…I was keeping chameleons in all glass cages back in the early to mid 80’s…and I never had any issues with RI’s in chameleons. I never fogged cages. I don’t have any issues with people fogging cages, BTW…I just never did it because I would end up with mold in my house. I talked about the glass cages on the ADCHAM forum and I was surprised when Chris Anderson later wrote the article about the glass cages. I didn’t think anyone would use glass cages because of all the people saying it was a no-no.

I had tried screen cages…they got too cool and dry here. I tried screen fronted cages…same thing. I would end up

 

[MissSkittles]

That's an entire life behind those glass enclosures. It's a life worth living, if that individual speaks to you.

Beautifully put.

 

[jamest0o0]

I’ve been one of those people harping on chain stores in the past. These days I don’t care as much. I’d still discourage it, but if someone must save something from a pet store then so be it. I think it’s just kind of looked at as you may be saving one, but condemning even more. Then we argue with each other and half defend the poor conditions in stores without saying it. Or side step the main issue which is that the chains are why the chameleons need to be saved in the first place… BUT I feel like some of the chains around have made some effort in improving care as well. Also wanted to mention, we see beautiful Cham’s come from chain stores because they are resilient and a good keeper can nurse them back to health. It’s not that anyone is saying these chameleons are all ugly and hopeless. It’s just that people don’t want to encourage how the chains do business. But back to my original point… I get where people that do “save” are coming from, mean well, and I don’t think all the stores are all that terrible these days.

I mean I just got a puppy from a random breeder which is discouraged, but any adoption agency wanted me to have a fence when I live on a side road with woods. Then they also wouldn’t let us have pretty much anything, but a tiny dog with kids. So screw em, how desperate could they be for homes if they’re that choosy… (sorry tangent)

 

[LizardLurkin]

I’ve been one of those people harping on chain stores in the past. These days I don’t care as much. I’d still discourage it, but if someone must save something from a pet store then so be it. I think it’s just kind of looked at as you may be saving one, but condemning even more. Then we argue with each other and half defend the poor conditions in stores without saying it. Or side step the main issue which is that the chains are why the chameleons need to be saved in the first place… BUT I feel like some of the chains around have made some effort in improving care as well. Also wanted to mention, we see beautiful Cham’s come from chain stores because they are resilient and a good keeper can nurse them back to health. It’s not that anyone is saying these chameleons are all ugly and hopeless. It’s just that people don’t want to encourage how the chains do business. But back to my original point… I get where people that do “save” are coming from, mean well, and I don’t think all the stores are all that terrible these days.

I mean I just got a puppy from a random breeder which is discouraged, but any adoption agency wanted me to have a fence when I live on a side road with woods. Then they also wouldn’t let us have pretty much anything, but a tiny dog with kids. So screw em, how desperate could they be for homes if they’re that choosy… (sorry tangent)

Oh yeah, I know 100% why it's said! And I agree with the rationale. but at the same time...No one specifically breeds veiled chameleons. It's just not possible to compete with the prices millbreeders put out, which at it's core is a fault of chain stores ultimately. Most veileds on morphmarket are wildcaughts, or their lineage is unknown because they started breeding the ones they got at stores or plucked off some tree in florida. I did search for a time during the winter, and the best bet seemed like flchams, but I saw people here are wary of them...So basically if you want a veiled it's petco, wildcaught, or sites people are cautious of.
That's the dilemma I faced, and I got a chameleon with an eye oddity because of it But rescuing was not in my head. I just really wanted a veiled..