Cross Breeding Panthers

[Chris Anderson]

the faly bred to a mitsio made me think i had read this before so i looked at your threads an seems youve addressed this a few times already havent you?
https://www.chameleonforums.com/inter-species-panther-cham-breeding-68778/
an theres another..

Thanks for pointing this out, Rob!

So Dan, in this thread you state:

I breed my mitsio with my faly and the results are beautiful, i easily sell both males and females to pet stores, perhaps for not as much, but they are becoming popular

Yet on 10/13/2011 (less than 1 month ago), you asked:

Hi, i was wondering if you can breed a male nosy faly, with a female nosy mitsio, what are the risks? can you breed the result or are they just nice colorations? do they have different needs?

Why do you feel the need to lie about things you have and have not done? Stop making stuff up and stop giving advice and making comments on things you don't know anything about!

Chris

 

[Chris Anderson]

Dan,

Is this the Nosy Mitsio female you bred your Nosy Faly to? http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268244

Out of curiosity, how exactly did you manage to have that animal DNA sexed as a female?

Chris

 

[Bradycham]

Oh man. Hope the people considering the purchase of that cham read this thread first! Why do people feel the need to lie?

 

[Chris Anderson]

On 10/14/2011 Dan posted the following as well:

Hello, i decided im going to breed my male nosy faly with one of my female nosy mitsios, i was wondering how much do you think the babies would be worth, of course females wouldnt be much im guessing 200, but what about males?

Its amazing that in less than a month, he bred his 4 month old DNA sexed "female" Nosy Mitsio with a male Nosy Faly, incubated and hatched the eggs, and then sold them all easily to local pet stores.

Chris

 

[bechsgaard]

different mitsio and i sold that one

 

[Chris Anderson]

different mitsio and i sold that one

You should probably just stop lying rather than reaching for even bigger shovels to dig a hole for yourself. You've been caught in a lie, stop making new ones.

Less than a month ago you didn't even know if you could bred different panther locales together and were asking if you could bred your Nosy Mitsio with your Nosy Faly. Now all of a sudden you've been breeding these two locales together forever and have all this experience selling hybrid babies.

At the same time you also specifically asked whether or not chameleon sex was influenced by temperature (https://www.chameleonforums.com/value-nosy-mitsio-falys-68813/#post640835) yet two weeks later you claimed to have a genetically sexed female for sale. News flash: you can't DNA sex an animal if they are temperature sex determinant!

Stop making up stories and stop lying about what you have and have not done.

Chris

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

10/14/11:

Hello, i decided im going to breed my male nosy faly with one of my female nosy mitsios, i was wondering how much do you think the babies would be worth

10/15/11:

indeed, its just a thought, i wana make sure i have places to sell them to, and know the risks. if i were to do it it wouldnt be for 4 months, i want to get rid of my current batch of nosy falys

11/9/11:

I breed my mitsio with my faly and the results are beautiful, i easily sell both males and females to pet stores, perhaps for not as much, but they are becoming popular

You've been busy! You've answered all your questions, suddenly become an expert, been doing this for years and are changing the hobby in two countries....in less than a month.

Look you've pissed off Chris Anderson. You're done! He only comes out of lurking when someone is really wrong or has something really cool. You just won the piss-off-Chris (and the rest of the forum) award of the year! Time for you to stop.

 

[mary prefontaine]

yellows?

I would like to try my hand at breeding one day, and of course those fired up yellows are totally awesome and very costly to say the least LOL. How would you go about ensuring to get the bright orange/yellows in a bred pair? preferably yellows of course!

 

[mary prefontaine]

how did these yellows come about then are they again crossed mutts?

So are you saying there are no natural yellow chams out there? and if not then people are playing with their genetics to get that bright yellow? Actually the more I think of it, I don't think its too natural for those deep burgundy reds either then.

Is it really that hard to find a nosy bee pure? I see them all the time. Are you saying they have been bred with other colors, then why are they so blue?

 

[mary prefontaine]

well all in all

I will of course do a lot of research, but i am not doing this to make money, just doing it to keep my chameleons alive, since they only live for 5 years. I thought I would breed them one time, so I don't have to buy another when they pass.. And If im lucky enough for all of the hatchlings to survive, then perhaps I can sell some to pay for this cage and the panthers and their food and other items. Thus making this a basically free hobby. As far as the colors go. The two babies i ordered, One male was sired from a nice red family and the female was sired by a male with lots of yellows, so I was hoping I may get a yellow out of it. Or at least close. After all this is not to do to change the lineage, as they are both ambioles. one is just more red and the other more yellow. How can you tell what part of the country they originally came from, when most breeders don't even know that themselves, unless they went out and hand picked them themselves, which i believe is illegal now.

 

[Olimpia]

So are you saying there are no natural yellow chams out there? and if not then people are playing with their genetics to get that bright yellow? Actually the more I think of it, I don't think its too natural for those deep burgundy reds either then.

Is it really that hard to find a nosy bee pure? I see them all the time. Are you saying they have been bred with other colors, then why are they so blue?

Of course there are naturally red and yellow chameleons. There are quite a few locales that display yellows and reds naturally. In captivity you are more likely to want to breed together the two with the most amount of red or yellow together to get even more of that color in subsequent generations, but the locales certainly start off with decent amounts of reds, yellows, blues, greens, etc. depending on which one they are.

No, not at all. Most reputable breeders have what are known as "true blue" Nosy Bes, which are solid blue. They've been selected to have a really solid blue, but if you buy from wild caught stock then you're more likely to get the more natural variations to the locale, which include red speckles on the face and maybe some hints of yellow. But it's not difficult to find pure Nosy Bes.

I will of course do a lot of research, but i am not doing this to make money, just doing it to keep my chameleons alive, since they only live for 5 years. I thought I would breed them one time, so I don't have to buy another when they pass.. And If im lucky enough for all of the hatchlings to survive, then perhaps I can sell some to pay for this cage and the panthers and their food and other items. Thus making this a basically free hobby. As far as the colors go. The two babies i ordered, One male was sired from a nice red family and the female was sired by a male with lots of yellows, so I was hoping I may get a yellow out of it. Or at least close. After all this is not to do to change the lineage, as they are both ambioles. one is just more red and the other more yellow. How can you tell what part of the country they originally came from, when most breeders don't even know that themselves, unless they went out and hand picked them themselves, which i believe is illegal now.

You will probably get a good mix of offspring with both reds and yellows, some more red, and some more yellow. I had an Ambilobe that was red with blue bars at rest and fired up pure yellow with blue bars.

And you can tell where a locale is from by learning what the "normal" variation within that part of the country is. Per say, if you go to Nosy Be (an island) and observe that the great majority of the panthers on this island are blue with slight variations on that blue, then that is the "bell curve" of normality, as it were. It's really easy to learn what is normal for each area of Madagascar when you see enough photos of each. By now there have been so many imported from the different regions that it's easy to know where each one is from. Plus, many people on this forum have actually been to Madagascar and seen the locales in the wild for themselves, so what the importers are telling us is true. I hope that makes sense.