Crazy idea

[saradoggy10]

So I'm sitting here and trying to think of alternative ways to get a chameleon feeling like a human presence is "normal". I understand instincts are a strong thing, but maybe they can be persuaded otherwise.
WHAT IF as one were to raise the babies, they keep the bin they are in (for the first month) next to their bed? So that one were to regularly walk by it while they are very young. Also trying to decide if keeping a board from them watching while you sleep would be beneficial or not. For one, they'd see you sleeping next to them which, in nature, is a sign of trust. But then again they'd see you a lot more often.

What do you think? Is this idea plausible? Do you think it would benefit the babies in terms of getting used to humans so they're less stressed meeting others?
(P.S. I am NOT encouraging handling etc when they're not ready. Just making them stressed as little as possible just with a human's presence.)

Maybe if humans became more normal to them, the usual hunger strike after moving can be minimized (I would not suggest attempting to make them get used to a changing environment.)

 

[Haley Hendrix]

So I'm sitting here and trying to think of alternative ways to get a chameleon feeling like a human presence is "normal". I understand instincts are a strong thing, but maybe they can be persuaded otherwise.
WHAT IF as one were to raise the babies, they keep the bin they are in (for the first month) next to their bed? So that one were to regularly walk by it while they are very young. Also trying to decide if keeping a board from them watching while you sleep would be beneficial or not. For one, they'd see you sleeping next to them which, in nature, is a sign of trust. But then again they'd see you a lot more often.

What do you think? Is this idea plausible? Do you think it would benefit the babies in terms of getting used to humans so they're less stressed meeting others?
(P.S. I am NOT encouraging handling etc when they're not ready. Just making them stressed as little as possible just with a human's presence.)

Maybe if humans became more normal to them, the usual hunger strike after moving can be minimized (I would not suggest attempting to make them get used to a changing environment.)

This is a very interesting subject and i had thought about the same question. Another thing i thought about is would it stress them out? Or would they think it’s normal. I personally think it would allow them to trust the human that they see most often. But at the same time i wonder if trust is mainly build by physical touch and relating good things to coming out.

 

[jamest0o0]

My Parsons sees me all the time and is very relaxed around people.

 

[saradoggy10]

This is a very interesting subject and i had thought about the same question. Another thing i thought about is would it stress them out? Or would they think it’s normal. I personally think it would allow them to trust the human that they see most often. But at the same time i wonder if trust is mainly build by physical touch and relating good things to coming out.

I also had the idea of feeding them every time I handle then, and then switching to feeding them every other time I handle them, then easing off feeding. A good 'ol training situation but they would highly associate your hand with snacks.
Maybe even using specifically superworms and while handling and using superworms only then. So it's a special treat.

 

[saradoggy10]

My Parsons sees me all the time and is very relaxed around people.

Maybe it's his personality! Or maybe he just had a very kind breeder. Maybe both!
Nature vs nurture I guess

 

[jamest0o0]

Probably just his nature if I had to guess

 

[Haley Hendrix]

I also had the idea of feeding them every time I handle then, and then switching to feeding them every other time I handle them, then easing off feeding. A good 'ol training situation but they would highly associate your hand with snacks.
Maybe even using specifically superworms and while handling and using superworms only then. So it's a special treat.

Yes it’s a very interesting and there are so many things that you can experiment with. I would like to know what builds trust the most: treats, seeing you, or coming out and interacting. They truly are amazing creatures

 

[saradoggy10]

Yes it’s a very interesting and there are so many things that you can experiment with. I would like to know what builds trust the most: treats, seeing you, or coming out and interacting. They truly are amazing creatures

I know! I was thinking I'll split them in half in the first month- one being handled minimally and the others treated with human training

 

[Haley Hendrix]

I know! I was thinking I'll split them in half in the first month- one being handled minimally and the others treated with human training

Yes that’s perfect. Then you can see what really works. Interesting topic.

 

[MissSkittles]

I don’t know...I’m a night person and have my chams in my bedroom so the poor things have to watch me sleep during the day. Although they aren’t babies, I don’t see that it’s changed their trust level in me. My male who I’ve had since he wasn’t quite 3 months old is the least trusting of me. It takes a lot to overcome their instincts and they haven’t been kept domestically for very long. I’d be very interested in what you find though.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

So I'm sitting here and trying to think of alternative ways to get a chameleon feeling like a human presence is "normal". I understand instincts are a strong thing, but maybe they can be persuaded otherwise.

You want to be the Jane Goodall of chameleons?

WHAT IF as one were to raise the babies, they keep the bin they are in (for the first month) next to their bed? So that one were to regularly walk by it while they are very young. Also trying to decide if keeping a board from them watching while you sleep would be beneficial or not. For one, they'd see you sleeping next to them which, in nature, is a sign of trust. But then again they'd see you a lot more often.

Are you thinking of imprinting? AFAIK, egg-laying reptiles don't imprint; even those that guard their eggs. FWIW, here's what I do find:

Here's what makes lizards bond with their babies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_care#In_reptiles

Oh, nevermind; there's more than I thought:

reptiles that rear their young

Maybe if humans became more normal to them, the usual hunger strike after moving can be minimized (I would not suggest attempting to make them get used to a changing environment.)

Just remember you're up against tens of millions of years of evolutionary precedent. IDK how many generations it might take to effect change, but I would think a lot.

I would study the nature & behavior of the species you want to work with, and try to build off of that rather than change it. YMMV.

 

[saradoggy10]

You want to be the Jane Goodall of chameleons?


Are you thinking of imprinting? AFAIK, egg-laying reptiles don't imprint; even those that guard their eggs. FWIW, here's what I do find:

Here's what makes lizards bond with their babies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_care#In_reptiles

Oh, nevermind; there's more than I thought:

reptiles that rear their young


Just remember you're up against tens of millions of years of evolutionary precedent. IDK how many generations it might take to effect change, but I would think a lot.

I would study the nature & behavior of the species you want to work with, and try to build off of that rather than change it. YMMV.

I'm not thinking of imprinting. Imagine a squirrel that is raised in the hands of a human is more likely to come to one to ask for food than a wild squirrel would.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I'm not thinking of imprinting. Imagine a squirrel that is raised in the hands of a human is more likely to come to one to ask for food than a wild squirrel would.

Yes, that's imprinting.

2. Zoology
(of a young animal) come to recognize (another animal, person, or thing) as a parent or other object of habitual trust.

Definitions from Oxford Languages​

Imprinting (psychology)

 

[saradoggy10]

Yes, that's imprinting.


Imprinting (psychology)

Imprinting is done only through birds. When a bird imprints, it sees the imprinted as its "future mate" which is why endangered birds cannot be allowed to be raised by a human without precautions at any cost. What you're thinking of is just building trust.
No reptiles have parental care other than crocodilians. They may raise eggs but they do not raise young.
There are many instances, however of reptiles coming to "like" humans in the instance you refer to as imprinting.

 

[janjan20]

I don’t have years of experience with raising hatchlings but from what I gather on the 3 I recently hatched is that it’s a crap shoot lol!! My oldest is the most trusting and most aggressive. My second is trusting but still skittish. He still hides from me unless I have food. My youngest, is the most skittish. I can’t even look at her and she turns into a stick. I have handled and they have seen me daily since birth. Not sure if there is a specific formula but very interesting topic ?

 

[saradoggy10]

I don’t have years of experience with raising hatchlings but from what I gather on the 3 I recently hatched is that it’s a crap shoot lol!! My oldest is the most trusting and most aggressive. My second is trusting but still skittish. He still hides from me unless I have food. My youngest, is the most skittish. I can’t even look at her and she turns into a stick. I have handled and they have seen me daily since birth. Not sure if there is a specific formula but very interesting topic ?

Hey its worth a shot! That is super interesting though. I think one of my favorite things about chameleons is their crazy differing personality.

 

[nightanole]

I'm not thinking of imprinting. Imagine a squirrel that is raised in the hands of a human is more likely to come to one to ask for food than a wild squirrel would.

I dont have to imagine. The squirrels around here have been trained for generations that the human with a nut in their hand is not going to get them. So if you are slow, they will take stuff from your hands. I assume its like that around college campuses as well.

My chameleons know that the rattling can means powdering crickets.
My tegu has finally learned that sammich bag noises means meatballs are coming.


Boiled down this idea doesnt sound so good. If you think about it, the premise is to put the chameleon in a high traffic area in hopes it gets used to it. No matter how tame, all off mine are "do your business and leave" they are not happy if you linger.

 

[saradoggy10]

H

I dont have to imagine. The squirrels around here have been trained for generations that the human with a nut in their hand is not going to get them. So if you are slow, they will take stuff from your hands. I assume its like that around college campuses as well.

My chameleons know that the rattling can means powdering crickets.
My tegu has finally learned that sammich bag noises means meatballs are coming.

Hehe sammich meatballs.
Habitual learning is in nearly every animal. Without it they wouldn't be animals

 

[MissSkittles]

H


Habitual learning is in nearly every animal. Without it they wouldn't be animals

That may be, but instinct is much stronger and without that, they wouldn’t be animals for long.

 

[saradoggy10]

That may be, but instinct is much stronger and without that, they wouldn’t be animals for long.

By instinct, mice should not want to be held, but some do anyway.
Instinct is, after all, hereditary habitual learning