Could he be blind? Update

[chamlover]

Well my little veiled guy is still alive. I have no idea how. He's still stumbling around like a drunk, but does seem to be doing better. Watching him today trying to climb his tree, he was having a really tough time. It was almost like he was blind and just using his hands to feel around. A few days ago i noticed he really wasn't trying to climb up and of course couldn't get close enough to the heat, so i placed him up there. Since then i've actually seen him there alot. Could being blind make him stumble like that? If so, how is a blind cham ever going to eat? I still haven't seen him eat anything.

 

[pssh]

I believe people with blind chameleons hand feed them. Someone was offering a free to good home chameleon who was blind and would readily accept crickets after you pressed on his nose/snout and would turn his head when he had enough. Or at least, that what she had said in the post.

 

[justjumpit621]

Yes at the moment Molly is blind and so I need to hand feed her. Although she is not quite as good as the one that was for adoption, I have to pry open her mouth.

 

[xanthoman]

blind cham ?

i have never had or even seen a blind cham, but it seems like it would be easy to tell. since there eyes are independent and tend to lock on to movement just outside of their main direction of view, it seems like if you just wiggled something or just held a feeder just ouside of the main direction they were looking, it should catch the attn of at least one of their eyes. if it does not, i would view that as a cause of concern. if you genuinely have suspicions, you should become pro-active in trying to figure out if that is the case, rather than just wait until it becomes blatantly obvious. some blind chams do ok, but i suspect that most do not. the possibilty of blindness raises the question , do you use a cfl or some other source of concentrated brightness? if so you should definitely consider switching to lineal reptisun. jmo

 

[pssh]

A good way to see how blind it is (if it seems to have partial vision) is to hold it away from a table or tree or something and see how close you have to get before it realizes that the table/tree/whatever is there or if it notices with only one eye. If it seems completely blind try putting your finger really close to it's eye and see if it closes it.

 

[kinyonga]

xanthoman...I think its the one in this thread that is being referred to...if so, its only about a week old...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/shaking-newborn-36727/

 

[jojothefirst]

my chams flinch or go into the karate chop stance when i move quickly so i would suggest maybe holding him and tryin 2 get him 2 flinch purely with quick movement. If he does, it would meen he has some vision.

 

[justjumpit621]

A good way to see how blind it is (if it seems to have partial vision) is to hold it away from a table or tree or something and see how close you have to get before it realizes that the table/tree/whatever is there or if it notices with only one eye. If it seems completely blind try putting your finger really close to it's eye and see if it closes it.

May not work... Molly just tries to reach out to the air even when nothing is there so it may be hard to tell if it is blind or if it can actually see something.

 

[pssh]

Maybe not... My guys only reach up when they are a foot or closer to something... I guess it just depends. I bet it works better with mammals.

 

[chamlover]

Your right Kinyonga, he is only a week old, so he is extremely tiny. There is NO WAY that i can even attempt to pry his mouth open. I guess i was just thinking out loud and hoping for some input. I'm going to try holding something in front of his face today and see if i get any kind of a reaction. If he was blind or nearly blind, wouldn't his eyes still have independent movement? Do chams have equilibrium similiar to humans?

 

[pssh]

Have you considered using a toothpick to open his mouth? I don't know how fragile veiled babies are as I've never seen one out of the egg(in real life anyways,) but I know they tend to be bigger than panthers.

 

[Cainschams]

Have you considered using a toothpick to open his mouth? I don't know how fragile veiled babies are as I've never seen one out of the egg(in real life anyways,) but I know they tend to be bigger than panthers.

Sounds like way too much trouble and very stressful for a baby.

As your want to keep this animal alive is genuine and admirable, I am going to be a Debbie downer I hope you do not get too offended.

I do not see the need to keep these weak hatchlings alive. The baby would not make it in the wild. All the trouble and stress to get this thing to feed will be overwhelming for the animal and care taker. If one is to have some success the animal will only break your heart after it fails further down the road. As sad and morbid as it may seem, this is a good chance to provide larger animals with a good source of Vit A and other nutrients from an animal source feeder.

It sounds like you will try to do what you can for it. Which is admirable like I said. The above is just my opinion. I wish you good luck on your decision.

 

[chamlover]

They're pretty tiny. I don't see how i could possibly open his mouth without hurting him. Wouldn't be tttttoooo bad if he sat pretty still and co-operated, but i don't see that happening!! Here's a pic of couple of his egg-mates when they was born:

 

[pssh]

Normally I would say let nature take it's course, but I like me a mystery (which apparently totally took over my brain) I guess that's a bad thing though... I've changed my vote because I realized i'm being selfish Pay no attention to my toothpick comment. Sorry.

 

[Jakedn]

Sounds like way too much trouble and very stressful for a baby.

As your want to keep this animal alive is genuine and admirable, I am going to be a Debbie downer I hope you do not get too offended.

I do not see the need to keep these weak hatchlings alive. The baby would not make it in the wild. All the trouble and stress to get this thing to feed will be overwhelming for the animal and care taker. If one is to have some success the animal will only break your heart after it fails further down the road. As sad and morbid as it may seem, this is a good chance to provide larger animals with a good source of Vit A and other nutrients from an animal source feeder.

It sounds like you will try to do what you can for it. Which is admirable like I said. The above is just my opinion. I wish you good luck on your decision.

I completely agree with this. A very natural way to end the baby's suffering whilst giving another chameleon some good nutrition.

 

[Elizadolots]

ewww...

okay...circle of life, I get it...but ewww!!!

This discussion could be point #1 on the argument "You are not ready to be a breeder if....
"

 

[Brad Ramsey]

This discussion could be point #1 on the argument "You are not ready to be a breeder if....
"

Exactly.
I had a couple of babies in a recent clutch of veileds that never opened their eyes. They expired before I had made a determination to euthanize them .... so nature did take it's course.
Is it better to suffer days starving to death, or do some good and be chomped quickly?
I have a hard time with this ... but some of these guys just won't make it no matter how you slice it.

-Brad

 

[chamlover]

Boy. Decisions, decisions. My husband wanted to put him down on Sat but i have seen an improvement since the time he was born and wanted to give him a little longer. And i do not EVER let them suffer but for some reason this guy stole my heart and i want to give him a chance. Like you said, if nature was going to take it's course, it should have already happened by now and i'm actually quite surprised that it hasn't.

I did notice the other day that he wasn't going up on the top branches, therefore not getting warm enough to eat. Once i put him up there, it's like he got the hint, and today he even looked like he was on the hunt.

I don't think i could feed him to anybody else though. I have to draw the line at that. If i decide to end it, he will go as peacefully as possible.

 

[chamlover]

I forgot to mention befoe that as a compromise to force feeding him i actually gave him a driper filled with a bug-juice mixture and he did seem to take some of it. That's as far as i will go for force-feeding, the rest is up to him. And i'm not offended by the comments. I realize nature has it's place but every now and then you find one that just needs a little helping hand. If that doesn't work, then i will give up...It would be completely different if he was bigger and something just went wrong. Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll keep you informed.

 

[Elizadolots]

Any creature who's touched you deserves a respectful "rest".

It might be stupid and sentimental and "human" but that's how I feel. As this little baby has touched you and is in a delicate state, you might want to start thinking about what to do if he doesn't make it. We recently lost a frog and she has a place in our garden under a plant. She fulfills her "circle of life" duties and we have the plant to remind us of her.

Frankly, I suspect your little one will pull through. It already sounds like he is getting a better handle on it.

Not to be too esoteric, but evolution sort of holds that higher animals need parental figures. At this point, chameleons don't have parental figures...but if humans step into that role might we see chameleons that would have died in the wild survive and demonstrate gifts which are not really valuable in the rain forest...I don't know what those gifts might be, but maybe we'll get to see them develop. At least among humans, creative, imaginative, idea producing people aren't usually the ones who would win "survival of the fittest"...it's parental figures that do a lot to keep that part of the equation at bay. Maybe, if you save this little boy, he'll be a unique and adventurous chameleon.