Cooling enclosure at night?

[Tarzanfam]

I think this is the last piece of my panther puzzle. Aside from ice packs, which don't stay cool all night, I am not sure what best practices are for keeping his cage lower temp at night. How is this done by most of you? Surely you don't drop your whole house temp do you? I can't monkey with that because we have a piano we need to baby. Gotta be cage area specific. Thanks!

I have seen those repticooler or other personal evaporative cooling machines...seems like it will just blow through the cage and dry him out?

 

[nightanole]

gona need loads more information

huge variation from a herper in montana vs florida

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

'Foggers' are essentially cool mist humidifiers without a picture of a reptile. They shouldn't dry things out; if they did, keepers wouldn't be using them.

I don't use one. My temps drop and RH rises enough by misting periodically through the night (with enough time to dry out between).

This only means—as nightanole points out—situations differ.

 

[Tarzanfam]

gona need loads more information

huge variation from a herper in montana vs florida

I live in Wisconsin. Our house is kept at 74 in the summer and 70 in the winter. We use AC and have a humidifier on our furnace. These things are not negotiable as we have a Steinway piano. His cage is on the floor to keep the temp a little cooler, but ice packs and the fogger are the only strategies I have right now. If I keep the fogger running all night, the whole cage floods. I would have to build a box with a tray or something and then I imagine the crickets would get out (the ones who escape from the shooting gallery anyhow). Just trying to sort out how to best help him with nighttime and icepacks SUCK.

 

[Tarzanfam]

'Foggers' are essentially cool mist humidifiers without a picture of a reptile. They shouldn't dry things out; if they did, keepers wouldn't be using them.

I don't use one. My temps drop and RH rises enough by misting periodically through the night (with enough time to dry out between).

This only means—as nightanole points out—situations differ.

I have a temp gun to check the temp at night and the fogger alone is not dropping the temp sufficiently. I keep seeing people posting about not having the fogger running unless it is 67 degrees, and it isn't, so I need to drop the temp yet. Ice sucks and doesn't stay cold all night. Just trying to find a more user friendly solution. One with less of a puddle of water would be good too!

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I live in Wisconsin. Our house is kept at 74 in the summer and 70 in the winter.

Those temps are fine for a panther.

His cage is on the floor to keep the temp a little cooler

This is not good. Their basking area should be at or above standing eye level.
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-placement/

TBH, I think this might be more stressful than the nighttime temps.

, but ice packs and the fogger are the only strategies I have right now. If I keep the fogger running all night, the whole cage floods. I would have to build a box with a tray or something and then I imagine the crickets would get out (the ones who escape from the shooting gallery anyhow). Just trying to sort out how to best help him with nighttime and icepacks SUCK.

A good evaporative cooler should (theoretically) be able to lower the temp 10°, which would put your nighttime in the mid '60s... Perfect!

It sounds like you may not have a drainage tray(?) They can be gotten relatively inexpensively after-market as drain/drip pans or washing machine drip pans.

I have a temp gun to check the temp at night and the fogger alone is not dropping the temp sufficiently.

Foggers aren't meant to drop temperature; they're meant to raise humidity.

I keep seeing people posting about not having the fogger running unless it is 67 degrees, and it isn't, so I need to drop the temp yet. Ice sucks and doesn't stay cold all night. Just trying to find a more user friendly solution. One with less of a puddle of water would be good too!

With being a tropical animal... rainforest... misting... I never considered not having a drainage system.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/drainage-systems-for-cages-get-creative.102038/

 

[DonKeesh]

Panthers don't need the big night time temp drop as other species such as Jacksons. They should do fine with house ambient temps at night.

 

[Tarzanfam]

Those temps are fine for a panther.


This is not good. Their basking area should be at or above standing eye level.
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-placement/

TBH, I think this might be more stressful than the nighttime temps.


A good evaporative cooler should (theoretically) be able to lower the temp 10°, which would put your nighttime in the mid '60s... Perfect!

It sounds like you may not have a drainage tray(?) They can be gotten relatively inexpensively after-market as drain/drip pans or washing machine drip pans.


Foggers aren't meant to drop temperature; they're meant to raise humidity.


With being a tropical animal... rainforest... misting... I never considered not having a drainage system.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/drainage-systems-for-cages-get-creative.102038/

4 ft is eye level for the majority of the people in my house! If I raise him up much, my kids will not be able to help with him at all. He is an important part of their lives, so striking a balance would be good. And no, I don't have a drainage system. I am not sure how to do it, so I have been running the fogger often and for short times so the water doesn't accumulate too much. It seems to work ok. I guess I am still more confused than I thought. It seems to me that I should get an evaporative cooler, but you also said those temps are fine for him, so I am left wondering if this is a problem.

 

[Tarzanfam]

Panthers don't need the big night time temp drop as other species such as Jacksons. They should do fine with house ambient temps at night.

Thanks for your reply! So what do I make of all the comments I see about not fogging unless it is under 67 degrees?

 

[CasqueAbove]

So what is your night time low? If the home is 70 you should get to 68 with fog. This is acceptable range. Below 70 is our goal. As mentioned you don’t need to go to low 60s or 50s like montane species.

If you need cooler I have made window fans with computer fan to pump in cool outside air.
If you need this let me know as I have some ideas. I Realize the piano has to be protected and has its own requirements

 

[CasqueAbove]

Thanks for your reply! So what do I make of all the comments I see about not fogging unless it is under 67 degrees?

The key to fogging above 70 is ventilation. In your case You are ok at 70. It is at the edge but it is there

 

[Tarzanfam]

So what is your night time low? If the home is 70 you should get to 68 with fog. This is acceptable range. Below 70 is our goal. As mentioned you don’t need to go to low 60s or 50s like montane species.

If you need cooler I have made window fans with computer fan to pump in cool outside air.
If you need this let me know as I have some ideas. I Realize the piano has to be protected and has its own requirements

The house does not fluctuate at night. We keep it constant, so when the AC is on in the summer, it is set to cool to 74 and when the heat is on, it heats to 70. So, we are coming into an easier time for him I guess with the temp being lower in the house in general. I will need to sort out a way to get his cage temp down during the months we run the AC (May-Aug or Sept). We keep our humidity a little higher than average for the piano already, so I am not fighting dryness in the winter as much as others might be. So it seems like just running the fogger in the winter is sufficient. I guess the "don't run the fogger if the temp is above 67" I keep seeing must be for another species rather than general information.

My screen cage is against a wall on the back side, has a cabinet on the right side and I have a shower curtain that I pull at night on the left side to keep humidity in.

 

[Beman]

The house does not fluctuate at night. We keep it constant, so when the AC is on in the summer, it is set to cool to 74 and when the heat is on, it heats to 70. So, we are coming into an easier time for him I guess with the temp being lower in the house in general. I will need to sort out a way to get his cage temp down during the months we run the AC (May-Aug or Sept). We keep our humidity a little higher than average for the piano already, so I am not fighting dryness in the winter as much as others might be. So it seems like just running the fogger in the winter is sufficient. I guess the "don't run the fogger if the temp is above 67" I keep seeing must be for another species rather than general information.

My screen cage is against a wall on the back side, has a cabinet on the right side and I have a shower curtain that I pull at night on the left side to keep humidity in.

I personally would not fog if your not within the cooler temp ranges... This brings the risk of an RI. With any fogging you need air movement. Otherwise it is just stagnant moist air. Which does not help. Fogging is not about humidity levels. It is about another point of hydration.... So breathing in cool fog has been shown to help hydrate a chameleon. Read through this and it will fully explain https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-environment/

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

4 ft is eye level for the majority of the people in my house! If I raise him up much, my kids will not be able to help with him at all. He is an important part of their lives, so striking a balance would be good. And no, I don't have a drainage system. I am not sure how to do it, so I have been running the fogger often and for short times so the water doesn't accumulate too much. It seems to work ok. I guess I am still more confused than I thought. It seems to me that I should get an evaporative cooler, but you also said those temps are fine for him, so I am left wondering if this is a problem.

The fogger should not be running during the day.

I mentioned the evaporative cooler because you seemed to have your mind set on lowering the nighttime temp low enough to run the fogger, but those nighttime temps without a cooler are fine. Sorry for the confusion.

Here's some climate data for Ambilobe, Madagascar...

The daily average high (red line) and low (blue line) temperature, with 25th to 75th and 10th to 90th percentile bands. The thin dotted lines are the corresponding average perceived temperatures.

Average Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec High 89°F 88°F 89°F 90°F 89°F 87°F 86°F 87°F 89°F 92°F 93°F 91°F Temp. 81°F 80°F 80°F 80°F 78°F 75°F 74°F 75°F 77°F 80°F 82°F 82°F Low 73°F 73°F 72°F 71°F 69°F 66°F 64°F 65°F 66°F 69°F 72°F 73°F

https://weatherspark.com/y/104776/Average-Weather-in-Ambilobe-Madagascar-Year-Round

Click to expand...

The low (nighttime) temps throughout most of the year are in the 70s.

You may still have to raise nighttime humidity though, and if it's too warm to run the fogger...
I'm in a similar situation. My solution is misting at night, which both lowers the temp a few degrees and raises humidity.

If you can point me to some pics of your enclosure, I may be able to better suggest something.

 

[Tarzanfam]

The fogger should not be running during the day.

I mentioned the evaporative cooler because you seemed to have your mind set on lowering the nighttime temp low enough to run the fogger, but those nighttime temps without a cooler are fine. Sorry for the confusion.

Here's some climate data for Ambilobe, Madagascar...



The low (nighttime) temps throughout most of the year are in the 70s.

You may still have to raise nighttime humidity though, and if it's too warm to run the fogger...
I'm in a similar situation. My solution is misting at night, which both lowers the temp a few degrees and raises humidity.

If you can point me to some pics of your enclosure, I may be able to better suggest something.

Thanks. The fogger is only run at night. Here are some pictures of his home. And see, the last person who commented is saying again not to run the fogger at these temps. I do not have my mind set on anything, but I have a 12gram lizard who is almost 7 months who is stunted growth because of 6 weeks of antibiotics that were prescribed after his journey to me for an RI and I cannot risk him getting sick again. I just don't know who to believe quite honestly and our vet doesn't know enough to clear this up for me. Every time I think I have something sorted, it gets all jumbled up again.

 

[CasqueAbove]

The house does not fluctuate at night. We keep it constant, so when the AC is on in the summer, it is set to cool to 74 and when the heat is on, it heats to 70. So, we are coming into an easier time for him I guess with the temp being lower in the house in general. I will need to sort out a way to get his cage temp down during the months we run the AC (May-Aug or Sept). We keep our humidity a little higher than average for the piano already, so I am not fighting dryness in the winter as much as others might be. So it seems like just running the fogger in the winter is sufficient. I guess the "don't run the fogger if the temp is above 67" I keep seeing must be for another species rather than general information.

My screen cage is against a wall on the back side, has a cabinet on the right side and I have a shower curtain that I pull at night on the left side to keep humidity in.

The rules on fogging still apply. The 67 degrees rule is good. Adaption would be if your temps and humidity remained high you would add air flow. 70 is right on the line. In this case you would want max airflow with full screen.
What @Beman is referring to is accurate. Fog in a hybrid or glass enclosure at 70 is asking for trouble. In your case you may have to tweak some rules. So if you fog make sure it is light and a fan.
If your getting close to 60% humidity, perhaps just a night time mist will be enough.
I use fog off and on. @kinyonga has never used fog and raised plenty of healthy chameleons. The trend to fogging is new and can be overused.
60% and 70 degrees is not standard recommended but not so far out either.
If I were to fog in your case, I would have the fog come out above the cage about 6 in. It will boost humidity drop temp 1 or 2 degrees but won’t flood his cage with fog.

 

[Tarzanfam]

The rules on fogging still apply. The 67 degrees rule is good. Adaption would be if your temps and humidity remained high you would add air flow. 70 is right on the line. In this case you would want max airflow with full screen.
What @Beman is referring to is accurate. Fog in a hybrid or glass enclosure at 70 is asking for trouble. In your case you may have to tweak some rules. So if you fog make sure it is light and a fan.
If your getting close to 60% humidity, perhaps just a night time mist will be enough.
I use fog off and on. @kinyonga has never used fog and raised plenty of healthy chameleons. The trend to fogging is new and can be overused.
60% and 70 degrees is not standard recommended but not so far out either.
If I were to fog in your case, I would have the fog come out above the cage about 6 in. It will boost humidity drop temp 1 or 2 degrees but won’t flood his cage with fog.

Ok, thank you for clarifying. Yes, the fogger is on at a weak setting, on and off throughout the hours of 11 and 5 over night only and from above. As it is a screen cage, there is airflow from two sides and the top of the third. Back is against a wall. I could add a fan for him. It seems as though this is not nearly the problem I thought it might be. This is good! I do noy have an automatic misting system, so I could only mist before I go to bed if that would help. It seems a fan would be a must in summer with the temp a bit higher, but I can't cool my house that much. Too expensive! I guess I will experiment with that next spring.