Concerned new cham parent

[jfnahabedian]

Hello,
I am new to the forum and to chams and would appreciate helpful guidance. i have done a great deal of research to properly prepare for caring for a cham but i currently have a few concerns.

1. my cham has been sleeping several hours per day. how active should she be?

2. i have only seen her eat once... i have even tried watching her for several hours. i also tried keeping track of her fruitflies but it is very difficult as there are numerous ff in a large enclosure. i tried adding extra ff so she might encounter them more often but she doesn't eat them even when they are right in front of her. how do i ensure she has been eating enough?

3. i have been misting her habitat to ensure there are plenty of water drops for her to drink from periodically throughout the day but i have never seen her drink. how do i know if shes drinking? i've tried watching her for several hours but i have never seen her drink.

i am very concerned about these behaviors and have taken every step to ensure she has a great environment. please see my specifications below and let me know if you have any recommendations. i am new to this and trying really hard to do everything correctly. so, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism would be highly appreciated. thank you in advance!

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - veiled, female, ~3weeks old based on size (smaller than pinky finger), owned her for a week

Handling - almost never

Feeding - Feeding flightless fruit flies covered in calcium w/ Vit D3 fine powder. About 100 fruit flies in large enclosure. i also put in a few pin head crickets. Gut loading ff with apple slices.

Supplements - Using Rep-Cal phosphorus free calcium with Vit D3 ultrafine powder. I dust the fruitflies in a jar then put them in the enclosure.

Watering - Using Reptifogger set on min. It's on a timer so it turns on every 2 hours for 30min at a time on min. Less often at night. I mist about 3 times a day for several seconds to ensure water drops are on leaves for drinking.

Fecal Description - I have not found droppings. she is very young

History - I got her from a pet store


Cage Info:
Cage Type - glass terrarium about 18in x 30in x 18in. screen top. Planning to upgrade to large all-screen enclosure when she is older.

Lighting - zoomed fixtures and bulbs. uv an heat lamp on 14 hours during day. both off through the night.

Temperature - temp about 23C (73-74F) during the day and about 21C (70F) during night. basking spot is about 25C (77F) Lowest overnight temp 20C. I measure using a digital fischer scientific thermometer and humidity monitor.

Humidity - My reptifogger on current settings with timer maintains the humidity between 60% and 90%. I use a fisher scientific digital humidity monitor.

Plants - one small fern and some air plants. small fake plant. one large stick. some green moss from a nursery (non toxic, no dyes or anything added). one fresh pine stick.

Placement - terrarium is on a shelf about 5ft off of ground. not other significant environmental factors.

Location - Seattle Washington

 

[sharp229]

Welcome to the forums! I'm sorry your chameleon isn't doing well. You should be able to get lots of good advice here and hopefully she will improve.

3 weeks old is much too young to be sold, it is best they be sold at around 3 months. Although this is not your fault and can't be fixed now, it could explain why she is having difficulty adjusting.

She should not be sleeping at all during the day; this is a sign of sickness. You should raise the basking temp to 85F for a baby. The ambient temp looks OK. What brand, model and wattage are your bulbs?

Since she is so small she may have trouble finding food in that cage.

Can you post pictures of both her and the enclosure? This would really help to determine if she is dehydrated or has other issues. Also, if you have not seen it already, the care sheet below may be helpful:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

 

[Lpsouth1978]

First things first.

Welcome to the forums, you have come to the right place to get help for your little Cham.

I have a number notes for you so here they are:

1. 3 weeks is VERY young to be getting a Cham at. It is very stressful for a Cham at any age to go throughout the process of going to a store and then into your home. It is especially difficult for young chams. No reputable breeder or store will even sell a Cham that young.

2. You should not be dusting with calcium with D3 at that age, and certainly not at every feeding. Get some calcium without D3 and dust with that every day.

3. You really don't need the fogger for a veiled. The misting should be enough to get the humidity where you need it. It is especially easy to have too high humidity in a glass terrarium. You want the humidity to get down to about 40% and then it should go up to about 90% right after you mist.

4. You will need to mist her for several minutes each time you mist in order to trigger the drinking response. A few seconds is usually not enough time.

5. This may be the most important piece of advice I can give you at this point. SHE SOULD NOT BE SLEEPING DURING THE DAY! If she is sleeping during the day then she is already sick. You need to take her to a qualified chameleon vet ASAP. At her age it is important to act quick, even then it can be VERY difficult to save her.

Please post pics of her and her enclosure so we can help you out even more. I'm sure there will be more advice coming from other members on her. Know that we can sometimes sound like we are being hard on people, but we all love these animals and want them to live long happy and healthy lives. You have done well so far and have just a few things to change.

I hope you are able to get her feeling better.

 

[jfnahabedian]

Welcome to the forums! I'm sorry your chameleon isn't doing well. You should be able to get lots of good advice here and hopefully she will improve.

3 weeks old is much too young to be sold, it is best they be sold at around 3 months. Although this is not your fault and can't be fixed now, it could explain why she is having difficulty adjusting.

She should not be sleeping at all during the day; this is a sign of sickness. You should raise the basking temp to 85F for a baby. The ambient temp looks OK. What brand, model and wattage are your bulbs?

Since she is so small she may have trouble finding food in that cage.

Can you post pictures of both her and the enclosure? This would really help to determine if she is dehydrated or has other issues. Also, if you have not seen it already, the care sheet below may be helpful:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

I feel stupid that i bought her so young. I didn't realize this was so bad for her health or I never would have bought her so young.

I raised basking temp to 85 using another small bulb. All bulbs are zoomed. I think my heat lamps are 40W.

I was worried about her finding food in the cage so I added extra fruitflies and an apple slice near her basking spot. The ff gather around the apple slice. There are ff almost always around her so I don't think she would have trouble finding food if she wanted to eat.

Pictures attached

 

[jfnahabedian]

First things first.

Welcome to the forums, you have come to the right place to get help for your little Cham.

I have a number notes for you so here they are:

1. 3 weeks is VERY young to be getting a Cham at. It is very stressful for a Cham at any age to go throughout the process of going to a store and then into your home. It is especially difficult for young chams. No reputable breeder or store will even sell a Cham that young.

2. You should not be dusting with calcium with D3 at that age, and certainly not at every feeding. Get some calcium without D3 and dust with that every day.

3. You really don't need the fogger for a veiled. The misting should be enough to get the humidity where you need it. It is especially easy to have too high humidity in a glass terrarium. You want the humidity to get down to about 40% and then it should go up to about 90% right after you mist.

4. You will need to mist her for several minutes each time you mist in order to trigger the drinking response. A few seconds is usually not enough time.

5. This may be the most important piece of advice I can give you at this point. SHE SOULD NOT BE SLEEPING DURING THE DAY! If she is sleeping during the day then she is already sick. You need to take her to a qualified chameleon vet ASAP. At her age it is important to act quick, even then it can be VERY difficult to save her.

Please post pics of her and her enclosure so we can help you out even more. I'm sure there will be more advice coming from other members on her. Know that we can sometimes sound like we are being hard on people, but we all love these animals and want them to live long happy and healthy lives. You have done well so far and have just a few things to change.

I hope you are able to get her feeling better.

Thank you so much! I want her to get better so badly.

1. I am so disappointed that the pet store sold her to me too young. If I knew it was bad for her at her age, I certainly wouldn't have bought her.

2. I am going to buy calcium without d3 today.

3. I have unplugged the fogger. I will mist like you told me.

4. I will mist for longer to trigger the drinking response. Should I mist right on her (get her wet)?

5. This is very alarming. I already care about her so much and I really want her to get better. I can't find a cham vet nearby. Would moving her to a vet stress her too much?

Thank you so much for all of the help!

 

[jfnahabedian]

Still lethargic

She is still sleeping. She wakes up sometimes and roams around then shes right back to sleep. Is there anything else I can do to help her? I'm so worried...

 

[sharp229]

Sorry, I don't see the pictures, could you try attaching them again?

Honestly she probably stands a better chance with you than the pet store, it is the pet store's fault for buying them that young.

I live in Everett and I have used a vet in Bothell, but I am not sure I would recommend them. Although they seem to know what their doing, they try and get you to do a lot of stuff that isn't necessary and if you don't have experience you might end up wasting a lot of money. Maybe someone else from Washington has a better alternative.

If you could post pictures it would really help to determine how serious the problem is.

 

[Lovereps]

Welcome to the forum!
Sorry your new baby cham is having problems.
You shouldn't feel stupid for buying such a young cham--the petstore is the one doing something they shouldn't--selling pets too young, either out of ignorance or just to make a quick buck.

Everyone loves babies but they should be raised to a "safe" age for the sake of the animal , as well as for the buyer.

I did not even begin offering my Jackson's cham babies for sale until they were over 5 months old, but other types of chams should be around 3 months before being sold.

I don't know exactly what UVB bulb you have but some of them are just too concentrated/too strong for a baby cham's eyes.
If you turn the UVB light off for a couple of days , she may begin to keep her eyes open more and more and then you will know the bulb is too much for her.
She will not die from no UVB for 2-3 days.

If she can't see because the UVB is too strong or too concentrated, then she can't eat.

I've found it helpful to put a small piece of fruit in the enclosure so the fruit flies will tend to stay on or near it, making eating them easier for baby chams. (I see you actually did this already.)
Josh's Frogs, a forum sponsor, has "producing" Hydei Fruit Fly Cultures raised in very nutritious media. I used them for my baby Jackson's and they were excellent, nutritious cultures.

If the terrarium you have is an ExoTerra , then you can get some bamboo skewers and insert them into the foam background to enable her to easily move around to wherever she likes.
You can put a strawberry onto one of the skewers and it will make the FFs easier to find.
You could also stick a skewer into the soil of a plant to keep the FFs close to her.
True pinhead crickets can be difficult to find and, crickets pose the danger to babies of chewing on them.
I'd try to keep a larger number of flightless fruit flies in her enclosure, with the fruit and hold off on the crickets for now.

You can mist her with a very fine mist and using very warm water will make the mist a more pleasant temperature for her.

For the pics, which don't show in your post, you could upload them to somewhere online and then post the URL.

Forget the vet, she's too young and it would just be more stress, which she clearly does not need.

Hopefully, misting her and turning the UVB bulb off for a few days will solve the problem.
Of course, you will need to get a new UVB bulb if it is the problem.
Longer bulbs are easier on babies eyes than compact fluorescent bulbs are.
Reptisun 5.0 is a good bulb that many here use.

 

[jfnahabedian]

Update and pictures

Sorry the pics didn't work. Here's a link to them. http://jfnahabedian.imgur.com/all/

She's doing so much better! She started perking up this morning after I switched off her uv light. It must have been hurting her eyes. I'm going to leave it off today. I'm going to buy a less powerful bulb straight away.

She is actively walking around her enclosure with her eyes open. I'm so happy!

I will continue to watch her closely to make sure she's eating and drinking. Hopefully it was just my UV light being too strong and now the problem is fixed.

I can't thank everyone enough for your help.

 

[Lovereps]

So glad you've found the problem and that you've found this forum

I hope she will now start eating like a little piggy


You'll have to set your pictures at imgur to be viewed publicly because only this message appears," jfnahabedian's images are not publicly available. "

 

[laurie]

That is the cutest baby!! No wonder you love her, I would too. You can raise the UVB above her cage about 10 inches and see if she is on with that. That way you don't need a new bulb. Be really careful about the substrate on the floor of the cage. It is very easy for you cham to get a piece of that when she is trying to eat. Most of us have a bare bottom or just a couple paper towels.

This is not negative - you are doing well, and raising that small a baby for your first cham, well it is amazing!! hang in there, I think you will both make it.

 

[AACblackout]

Gotta love it when the forum works there are some awesome people on here .

 

[Lovereps]

I will second Lauries warnings about using any substrate.
The very experienced chamkeepers who wrote the forum caresheets felt very strongly about that--enough to warn people not to use any substrate.

Most of us have a bare bottom or just a couple paper towels.

Laurie, I don't know about the folks in Montana, but here on the east coast, we never go around barebottomed or wearing paper towels