Concern regarding feeding and unusual poop for my panther chameleon

[Moses3552]

My panther was relocated from my son‘s dorm room where he had almost no foliage, but he actively hunted crickets and appeared to be doing well. I added a lot of foliage, but he’s not actively hunting anymore and won’t eat out of a plastic container. So, I’ve been taking crickets in and out of the cage sometimes leaving them on the roof overnight hoping he’ll eat. I tried a couple Dubia, but he wasn’t having it in the container. A couple of days ago, he started hanging out in the foliage deep in the bottom of the cage. Today, I found a poop that looks strange to me. I can’t figure out what is wrong and it’s been keeping me awake - very worried! Should I take him to the vet? I don’t even know where to begin.

 

[ch@meleons_rule]

Yes take him to the vet
They are tree dweler and should not be hanging out on the bottom of the cage.
He might also be a bit scared in the new inclosher.
Try free RANGING dubia roches too.

 

[VeiledMoodRing]

It looks like he might be a little dehydrated. You need to have a mister running and do some extra hand misting to make sure he get hydrated

 

[ehdee6]

Hi there,

That looks like your Cham is dehydrated. Are you able to post a picture of the entire cage and of the Cham? Also, if you're able to copy/paste these questions it will help us better assess the problem. It could be that he's just adjusting. It's not recommended to free feed, that's how chams get paricites. The feeders walk along the foliage, where poop remanence might be; then the Cham eats the dirty bug. Do you have a designated feeding dish your able to leave in the cage? Like these:
https://www.fullthrottlefeeders.com/
https://tkchameleons.com/products/shooting-gallery?variant=30018608595032
You can also DIY one:
Source: Dragon Strand (this link will download a PDF)
https://share.google/KMNSm3kBjyg6n4HUH

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Moses3552]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Panther, male, 6 mos old. He has been here for almost two weeks.
• Handling - i’ve had him out twice. I only take him out if he wants to come out. At first, he wouldn’t come near me, but now he trusts me. I hand fed him some water from the leaf this evening.
• Feeding - He seems to like crickets. When he wasn’t eating very many of the crickets, I brought home some Dubai roaches. I installed a plastic container to put the feeders in. He’s learned how to use it but he’s not eating very frequently.
• Supplements - i’ve included a picture of the supplement. LLL reptile told me to dust them three times a week. He hasn’t been eating them right away, so I understand that then the dusting is meaningless? I’ve been trying to take the crickets back out and put them back again so we don’t risk parasites
• Watering - I’ve been using a sprayer three times a day sometimes a bit more because he seems dehydrated. I understand that I need to get a fogger or a Mister for him. Humidity is 70 tonight. I do see him drink.
• Fecal Description - I’ve only recently had a good look at his fecal matter. The urate has been a bit orange. The rest looks pretty normal. No testing for parasites.
• History - he grew up in an active, lighted dorm room with hardly any foliage. I inherited the set up that my kid bought from PetSmart. I’m not even sure if what I’m doing is correct. I was told to turn off the UV and the light at night every 12 hours, but leave the heater on, so that is what I’ve been doing.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screened 16” x 16” x 30”. Bought some shower curtain today to DIY a hybrid and see if that helps with moisture for him.
• Lighting - I don’t know anything about the lighting, but I’m guessing it’s standard issue in a pet store that doesn’t specialize in reptiles.
• Temperature - basking only seems to be about 75° with a gun measure. Lower area is 60 to 70. Coldest at night is 60 to 62.
• Humidity - using a digital hydrometer. Humidity is about 70%. I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to be. I sprayed the plants in the cage to try and maintain humidity. I tried a homemade drip today.
• Plants - Ficus, bromeliad,, not sure about the other two plants that I inherited.
• Placement - right now it’s in a quiet bedroom, no vents or fans nearby. Top of cage is 51” from floor.
• Location - Southern California. Keeping house about 70 degrees.

 

[Moses3552]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Panther, male, 6 mos old. He has been here for almost two weeks.
• Handling - i’ve had him out twice. I only take him out if he wants to come out. At first, he wouldn’t come near me, but now he trusts me. I hand fed him some water from the leaf this evening.
• Feeding - He seems to like crickets. When he wasn’t eating very many of the crickets, I brought home some Dubai roaches. I installed a plastic container to put the feeders in. He’s learned how to use it but he’s not eating very frequently.
• Supplements - i’ve included a picture of the supplement. LLL reptile told me to dust them three times a week. He hasn’t been eating them right away, so I understand that then the dusting is meaningless? I’ve been trying to take the crickets back out and put them back again so we don’t risk parasites
• Watering - I’ve been using a sprayer three times a day sometimes a bit more because he seems dehydrated. I understand that I need to get a fogger or a Mister for him. Humidity is 70 tonight. I do see him drink.
• Fecal Description - I’ve only recently had a good look at his fecal matter. The urate has been a bit orange. The rest looks pretty normal. No testing for parasites.
• History - he grew up in an active, lighted dorm room with hardly any foliage. I inherited the set up that my kid bought from PetSmart. I’m not even sure if what I’m doing is correct. I was told to turn off the UV and the light at night every 12 hours, but leave the heater on, so that is what I’ve been doing.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screened 16” x 16” x 30”. Bought some shower curtain today to DIY a hybrid and see if that helps with moisture for him.
• Lighting - I don’t know anything about the lighting, but I’m guessing it’s standard issue in a pet store that doesn’t specialize in reptiles.
• Temperature - basking only seems to be about 75° with a gun measure. Lower area is 60 to 70. Coldest at night is 60 to 62.
• Humidity - using a digital hydrometer. Humidity is about 70%. I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to be. I sprayed the plants in the cage to try and maintain humidity. I tried a homemade drip today.
• Plants - Ficus, bromeliad,, not sure about the other two plants that I inherited.
• Placement - right now it’s in a quiet bedroom, no vents or fans nearby. Top of cage is 51” from floor.
• Location - Southern California. Keeping house about 70 degrees.

 

[Moses3552]

Does anyone know a good chameleon vet in San Diego?

 

[ehdee6]

Sorry for the delayed response, I'm just at work right now. But can flag some members familiar with panthers, in case they can respond. I can get back in a few hrs, if they can't get to you. @MissSkittles @Beman

This is a list of recommend vets.

 

[Moses3552]

Sorry for the delayed response, I'm just at work right now. But can flag some members familiar with panthers, in case they can respond. I can get back in a few hrs, if they can't get to you. @MissSkittles @Beman

This is a list of recommend vets.

Thank you so much for all your help. I really appreciate it. The DIY site was really helpful and I made a feeder. He’s definitely taking an interest in it. I haven’t seen him eat yet as I don’t want to be intrusive. I put about 10 crickets in there. I’m hoping that he’ll eat them.

 

[Moses3552]

Thank you so much for all your help. I really appreciate it. The DIY site was really helpful and I made a feeder. He’s definitely taking an interest in it. I haven’t seen him eat yet as I don’t want to be intrusive. I put about 10 crickets in there. I’m hoping that he’ll eat them.

 

[GrannyK]

Welcome to the forum and crazy world of chams!! You’re in great hands here. I don’t have time to complete the husbandry review right this moment but I do want to strongly urge you to watch Neptune the chameleon videos. She is awesome for reference, I watched all her videos when we got our first.

 

[ehdee6]

This is going to be a lot to take in, please keep asking questions if you have them, we're here to help your little made thrive!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon- Panther, male, 6 mos old. He has been here for almost two weeks.
• Handling- i’ve had him out twice. I only take him out if he wants to come out. At first, he wouldn’t come near me, but now he trusts me. I hand fed him some water from the leaf this evening.
  • Perfect, this is a really good blog on building trust: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/
• Feeding- He seems to like crickets. When he wasn’t eating very many of the crickets, I brought home some Dubai roaches. I installed a plastic container to put the feeders in. He’s learned how to use it but he’s not eating very frequently.
  • I've attached a sheet that give you a good list of feeders to help diversify his selection. It's also really important to gut-feed your bugs too, I've also attached a care sheet for good things to feed them.
• Supplements- i’ve included a picture of the supplement. LLL reptile told me to dust them three times a week. He hasn’t been eating them right away, so I understand that then the dusting is meaningless? I’ve been trying to take the crickets back out and put them back again so we don’t risk parasites
  • So, the supplement you have is a multi-vitamin, which is good he does need it! But he shouldn't get it more than twice a month, say on the 1st and 15th of every month. Excessive vitamins in the diet, especially vitamin D3, can lead to toxicity. You'll want to get a supplement that is only calcium to dust his bugs every feeding (except for the 2 days you give him the multi vitamin).
  • 
    
    
• Watering- I’ve been using a sprayer three times a day sometimes a bit more because he seems dehydrated. I understand that I need to get a fogger or a Mister for him. Humidity is 70 tonight. I do see him drink.
  • It's best to monitor the heat and hydro levels with a probe, like this. Your little man is likely dehydrated, I would recommend a mister. The thing with the fogger is that, if you can't keep temperature below 65f the cham will become prone to a respiratory infection.
  • 
• Fecal Description- I’ve only recently had a good look at his fecal matter. The urate has been a bit orange. The rest looks pretty normal. No testing for parasites.
  • Keep keeping an eye on it, if the orange doesn't turn to white he may need to see a vet.
• History- he grew up in an active, lighted dorm room with hardly any foliage. I inherited the set up that my kid bought from PetSmart. I’m not even sure if what I’m doing is correct. I was told to turn off the UV and the light at night every 12 hours, but leave the heater on, so that is what I’ve been doing.
  • It's best to turn off all the lights and heat after 12 hrs. They need a night time temperature drop, it helps them sleep better and helps if you run a fogger. If your ambient (room) temperature is over 77f you won't need to use the heat lamp until the temperature drops below that.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- screened 16” x 16” x 30”. Bought some shower curtain today to DIY a hybrid and see if that helps with moisture for him.
  • The shower curtain should totally help! You can also use window film. If you can afford to upgrade to the XL reptibreeze it's highly recommended, as he gets older he'll start to grow and want to wander around more.
  • https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/terrariums/zoo-med-reptibreeze-open-air-reptile-screen-cage-14983.html
• Lighting- I don’t know anything about the lighting, but I’m guessing it’s standard issue in a pet store that doesn’t specialize in reptiles.
  • The most important is the UVB light, without it they can develop metabolic bone disease. This is when he's not getting the proper light to help his bones metabolize the calcium, and their arms and legs start to grow warped and become brittle. You'll need either a zoomed 5t 5% (and those bulbs NEED to be changed every 6 months), or an arcadia 5t 6% (those bulbs last a year and only need to be changed every 12 months). I'd highly recommend the arcadia it give off a better light and you save money by not replacing the bulbs so much. The 24" is also the better option, in case you get a bigger cage, it will cover more area.
  • 
    
• Temperature- basking only seems to be about 75° with a gun measure. Lower area is 60 to 70. Coldest at night is 60 to 62.
  • Temperature guns only record the temperature of the service you point it at. I'd recommend using the probe one I mentioned above. I also bought a temp gun when I was new... I now use it when I'm cooking to check if a roast is done LOL!
• Humidity- using a digital hydrometer. Humidity is about 70%. I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to be. I sprayed the plants in the cage to try and maintain humidity. I tried a homemade drip today.
  • You should try and aim for this:
  • 
• Plants- Ficus, bromeliad,, not sure about the other two plants that I inherited.
  • I've also attached a care sheet of cham approved plants, panthers don't tend to eat their plants like a vailed would, but it's best to make sure they're still pet safe.
• Placement - right now it’s in a quiet bedroom, no vents or fans nearby. Top of cage is 51” from floor.
• Location - Southern California. Keeping house about 70 degrees.

Other great sources of info:
https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/

 

[Moses3552]

Thank you so much! I’m going to work on everything you sent to me. I took him to the vet today and he said that my Cham is not dehydrated, but that he is calcium deficient. He’s not eating because he’s cold. Vet gave me calcium drops to give him for a month. I need to warm up the room for him and I’m working on a fogger. Also, just as you suggested the variation and diet and gut loading the bugs. I really hope I can turn this around for him.

 

[ehdee6]

It sounds like he's in good hands! We're here to support and watch him grow with you! It's a lot to learn at first, but once everything's dialed in it's smooth sailing. If you don't have the correct UVB light it's also best to get it ASAP, and the calcium only vitamins, to help with the calcium deficiency.

I'm hoping one of the more senior members will chime in about the Vet advice, as I've not had to use the calcium drops before. I'm not sure if it effects the need to dust the feeder bugs while using it.

I'm not sure from the picture if you only have the dome light, or if the circled one is a T5.

Edit to add, I just noticed that the cage is near a window. The draft (even if unopened) will effect the temperature. It's best to move it into the corner. A Wi-Fi power cord will give you the extra length from the outlet; and with the timer, you won't have to worry about being there to turn lights on/off. I use this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G95FFN3?ref=emc_b_5_mob_i