Colassal Hornworm question!

[carol5208]

Can hornworms get too big to feed? I have never seen hornworms grow like this before in a week!! I just fed my panther Romoeo one(he is about 11 1/2-12 months old) I thought he was gonna choke! He freaked me out and and put his neck straight up in the air and then opened his mouth a few times afterward like he wasnt getting air. Is this normal when they eat really big stuff or can they choke on a large hornworm? I know people feed their chams pinkies and stuff and was wondering if that is just what they do when they eat large prey. I have never fed him anything that big and some of the worms are about the same size. They are superfat and a good two inches plus. If there is a chance of this then I am going to let the super big ones go!

 

[Jamelon]

I dont know if they can choke on them but i did read on this forum somewhere that a hornworm actually latched on to the inside of the chams throat, it might have been onto the rod which it uses to shoot its tongue, apparently it actually held on with its mandibles and it wouldnt let go, so i advise that you remove the mandibles on the larger hornworms so that they cant give a nice hard bite to your cham lol just to be safe

 

[pssh]

Ew. Have you ever tried to remove the mouth parts? Not fun, clean, or practical. Just make sure your chameleon chews it pretty well. I imagine he put his head up to use gravity to his advantage (like when they drink water) since they don't have sphincter Control in their throats. So basically, if it's not down all the way and they turn their head down, the food/water might just come out.

 

[jessica]

Don't let them go!! Let them pupae into moths and let Romeo try a Hawk Moths! My male panthers love them Just throw them in some dirt let them burrow down and in a couple weeks whola! Hawk moths

I usually don't feed Horn worms after they get to a certain point that makes me nervous about feeding, but yes I have seen exactly what your describing lol it can be bothersome. I've actually seen my male Melleri run from really big horn worms

 

[carol5208]

Ok, so if I put them in the dirt then they will turn into moths? Do they have to be a certain age to go into that stage? How do you know when to stop feeding them? I don't think that it latched on to him cause he bit down on it and all the guts (yuk) just went flying everywhere! I guess it was just big and he was putting his head up like you said to help it go down. Do the moths fly after they are hatched? i know the silkworm moths do not. So do they need to go into a covered container with just regular dirt then? I have never dealt with this problem before cause I just fed them off before they got big but these things must have had some steroids injected into them or something! lol!

 

[Silkyslim]

WHen they are ready to pupate they will get super restless and start to darken up overall. I am pretty sure they stop eating too. Toss them in the dirt and they will dig till they get comfy and start the pupation process.

 

[jessica]

Like Silkyslim said when they get restless or the cup runs out of food lol throw em in some dirt.

The moths don't really fly right away and when they do it's more like a flutter.

 

[ChamOh]

i know they can whip around and bite the head area if the cham gets them from the wrong end, but can these things actually inflict a harmful bite internally on the cham?

 

[ChamOh]

bump for knowledge

 

[Silkyslim]

I have read stories here about people who have had their chams bitten by one but some of the worse ones have to be myths, but who knows. I remember one post a while back saying that the worm survived in the cham stomach and actually ate its way through the stomach but I seriously doubt that one just on disgestive fluid power alone.

My cham grabbed a super by the tail once and the thing reared around and damn near bit his eye. Ever since then I have never seen Samson not take a worm by the head.

My cham also grabbed a hornworm once and the hornworm had super grip that Samson couldn't compete with so he had to walk his tongue back in and snatch up the hornworm. I could forsee a problem with that if the cham loses balance and falls with his tongue stuck on the worm and I imagine a whole scenario like KShook had to deal with.

I suppose the lesson to learn would be to never underestimate feeders!

 

[carol5208]

So how big do these suckers get? I have two of them that are 3 inches long and about as fat as a duracel double AA battery! I took the food away from them, as one member suggested. How long can they go without food. Does anyone know? I am trying to stop them from growing. The two or three that I cannot feed I am going to try and grow into moths. Are the moths really big too like the worm. The silkworm moths were really small.

 

[ChamOh]

i am interested in hearing some answers to the above ?'s too. I know you can cycle them in the fridge about 12 hrs in 12 out to slow down growth..

these freaking things are vicious and grow like maniacs. I'm still trying to get a confirmation if they can bite the cham internally before they are completely chewed up and cause harm...

 

[pssh]

Nah, their mouth parts are too small to do any serious damage. The larger ones MIGHT be able to grab onto something, but I doubt it. The small ones pretty much cant bite strong enough to grab anything but leaves and chow. Now supers on the other hand... Those things hurt when they get your cuticle!

They will not just randomly pupate when food is taken away. They must be ready to do it. Generally that is at 3 1/2 - 4 inches. I leave some torn up napkins in the bottom of the pod and just let them dig down in it. Then I can remove them from the rest and put them in a clean bin of shredded napkins. Keep the humidity up a little as they can dry out.

 

[carol5208]

Are the moths huge then like the worms?

 

[pssh]

Not HUGE, but not small. Your massive monster panther should be able to take them down fairly easily. Dont let their wings fool you! You only have to worry about the body size as the wings are soft and easy to eat. Mine never turn down a butterfly or moth. Well, my small 4 month old female wont yet, but I think the butterfly wings look to intimidating for her. She'll eat silkmoths though.

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

The moths are quite large but not nearly as large as the hornworms themselves. The worms even at their largest can be tackled by adult male and female panther chameleons. The adult females may have a lil trouble with them but they get down the biggest of the hornworms. Your guy should still be able to eat the giant worm if he's an adult. IDk how he is though.


Justin

 

[radstusky]

They'll get up to 4" long and it sounds like they may already be too big for Romeo. Before they pupate, they'll shrink quite a bit and the moths will be no problem for him. You could let the moths mate and see if you can get them to breed. I did and got around 40 more hornworms! I grew them up on mulberry chow since I didn't have the hornworm chow. They seem to eat just about anything. Good luck!

 

[carol5208]

The moths are quite large but not nearly as large as the hornworms themselves. The worms even at their largest can be tackled by adult male and female panther chameleons. The adult females may have a lil trouble with them but they get down the biggest of the hornworms. Your guy should still be able to eat the giant worm if he's an adult. IDk how he is though.


Justin

He is about a year and a decent size panther but I did not like the way he struggled with swallowing that big one the other day and I would freak if he choked or something. So I guess I will take the big ones and see if I can get them to pupate.

 

[carol5208]

They'll get up to 4" long and it sounds like they may already be too big for Romeo. Before they pupate, they'll shrink quite a bit and the moths will be no problem for him. You could let the moths mate and see if you can get them to breed. I did and got around 40 more hornworms! I grew them up on mulberry chow since I didn't have the hornworm chow. They seem to eat just about anything. Good luck!

ok, thanks for the info Stuart! It would be nice to get some moths to breed and get some free hornworms. These suckers are expensive!!!

 

[pssh]

You will need a tomato plant for the adults to lay on. Plus they need the day length to mimic summer and what not. You wont get many eggs with less than 14 hours of light and warmth. Moth/butterfly larvae are expensive for a reason. A lot of time, care, money, and cleaning goes into it. My painted ladies aren't nearly as labor intensive and they still tie me up! I dont even breed very large scale either! I can rear 15 in a 16 oz cup, but with hornworms you would have to start separating them as they got bigger! Supposing you're going to use cups anyways.