Clumsy chameleon? Please have a look!

Moreau

New Member
Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled, male, 1.5 years old, couple of weeks
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? So far only when cage cleaning, short period, every other day or so, he doesn't like it.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? He is currently eating mostly superworms, doesn't seem to like much else yet. I think he grew up on them. Feed him daily, he has been typically eating 3-4 worms, everyday to every other day. I have offered crickets and butterworms, without much interest
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Exo terra calcium and multivitamins, Repashy calcium with D3. Calcium daily, or whenever he eats, calcium with D3 and multivitamins each a couple times a month. (will be, I haven't had him long)
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? So far just misting, he was drinking off the cage glass. Tried to rig a dripper with a cup, he drank from it. Will be going to buy a real dripper hopefully today. Have a friend who will be giving me a mister soon as well
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Poos daily or every other day, looks like a jelly bean, but a turd. The whites are white. I don't know, but likely he has never been checked over by a vet.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. I "rescued" him from Clist, he was living with one very thick branch in a thirty gallon tank. UVB bulb looked like it had never been changed, likely wasn't working well anymore. He had a water fountain for drinking, had never been sprayed before or misted at shed time.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Today charlie got into his 2 x 2 x 4 screen cage.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I just set him up with a lovely combo light from Light Your Reptiles, so UV is all set.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 60Watt incandescent bulb, it is a work in progress but should be between 85-92ish depending how high up the branch he goes. I use a temp gun. I tied a toy dinosaur to the basking branch to measure the temp, as it wasn't reading the wood very well. Night time temp likely falls into the low to mid 60's at this time of year.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I have no idea what the humidity levels are. There are three live plants in there, and I plan to add more. I live in BC, Canada, so on the whole a pretty humid place.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? 2 ficus, one Kalenchoe, plan to add some hanging pothos or some other hanging plant
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? I have just moved it, it is in a semi-low traffic area, but there is some action sometimes. It is between a book shelf and a china cabinet, and I plan to pick up a dark shower curtain to wrap around it, to help with humidity and over spray. Top of cage is about 6 feet from floor.
Location - Where are you geographically located? British Columbia, Canada


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. Charlie is a clumsy oaf. He falls all the time. At first I thought it was because his stick was too thick, but even on thinner sticks he falls off. He fell right to the bottom of his cage twenty minutes ago! When I look closely at his feet, it looks as though he could be missing some claws on the back feet, will they grow back? What could cause them to come out? His feet in general look a tad strange to me.

I don't think he has ever had appropriate sized branches, could this have caused some issues with foot structure and strength? His limbs look okay, not bowed or anything.
I have alot of pictures to post, I would appreciate some opinions of his overall health appearance. And please keep in mind this is his first day in the new cage, there will be some additional foliage and probably more branches added, plus I will be adding a dripper hopefully today. If I can figure out how lol!

He was VERY mad during these pics, it was the most colour I've seen on him yet!







 
I think it is very kind of you to have rescued him.
Your handsome cham does seem to be missing some nails which, unfortunately, usually do not grow back. Often chams lose nails when climbing screens and their nails get stuck or by being pulled off of something they're gripping onto.
Until he gets better balance, you might rig up something soft to prevent him from falling to the bottom and getting hurt.

One possibility is that your cham is not getting enough to drink, so he is weak and dizzy--just like a person would be on a hot summer day if he hasn't had enough water.
There's no need for anything fancy as a dripper, a clean plastic milk bottle or similar, with a pinhole in the bottom should drip slowly and steadily.
Water is even more important to living creatures than food is.

A good way to hydrate a cham is to put a plant into a warm, not hot, shower, aim the shower spray at the wall so it splashes a bit onto the plant, and put your cham onto the plant.
A half hour shower session should help him to catch up.

If you can elevate the plants on some things, like upside down flower pots or buckets or clean plastic wastebaskets, he will have more privacy, which is what chams like.
Just be sure to drill a hole or two in the top whatever you use as plant stands to ensure that water does not accumulate there to stagnate and grow bacteria (which will make a cham sick).

Another possibility is that he has been calcium deprived to some degree. His diet of superworms and earlier lack of UVB would both contribute to this.
Superworms are deficient in calcium, just like crickets are, so they should be lightly dusted with a plain, phosphorus-free , D3 free calcium.
Your feeders should also be eating a nutritious diet, to give your cham the most nutritients possible. We call it gutloading the feeders. Details are here:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/560-frequently-asked-questions-nutrition.html



Here is a great 2 part Veiled care sheet which gives many more specific details about veileds and is a useful reference to have on hand:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html
 
Thanks for the reply.
I had a closer look at his feet, and I actually saw two veiled chams at a pet store last night so I was able to compare. He is definitely missing some claws, and the ones he does have are much shorter than the ones I saw at the pet store. I will have to redo this whole cage I think. I need to figure out how to make it safer for him. More branches, closer together for one thing I think. He can't even really climb the screen.

Should I be rethinking this tall arboreal cage for a "handicapped" chameleon? Maybe he should have a shorter cage, so it is safer in case of falls? I'm not sure what I can do in this cage to make the bottom soft. Towels? More plant pots? I would love some more advice on this.

And I will try the shower for him. Stupid pet store was out of drippers, so I have to try another one, or rig something up on my own.
 
You can buy some gutter guard or plastic garden fence and attack it like 2-3" from the bottom. It's quite convenient really.

For better grip.. maybe something like komodo tropical vine? I use it for all 3 of my chams. It's easy to wash and seems to be quite comfy for them.

For hydration (part from misting) the best thing I found is silkworms. My animals LOVE them, and they are mostly water.

Good luck with him, he is very pretty! Love his patterns!
 
What would be the purpose of the gutter guard or garden fence? To make the floor higher?

I do have quite a few vines in there, different brand though. I will be adding more for sure, plus more real branches as well, just have to go out and branch hunt. I am also awaiting some silk worms, I hope he likes them.
 
I tried to find how people have modified their enclosures to help chams who are at risk of falling by searching past posts but came up fewer than I had thought I would.
Bocajan had a rescue cham with severe MBD, so a PM to her may yield some help if she doesn't see your post.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/update-vinny-severe-mbd-40236/
Bridgofaith is another possibility
https://www.chameleonforums.com/jack-43434/

What I would do is to find something strong enough to support all the plants, like a short square plastic table, or a couple of plastic wastebins and put something on top of it, so that the feeders can't easily crawl around it to escape him.

Sometimes you can find plastic drain pans in the stores or maybe online on Amazon, etc. something like these:
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-17892-T...TF8&qid=1359050819&sr=8-15&keywords=drain+pan
http://www.amazon.com/Plews-75-755-...TF8&qid=1359051109&sr=8-18&keywords=drain+pan
http://www.amazon.com/Camco-20922-2...TF8&qid=1359051109&sr=8-22&keywords=drain+pan


In re-reading my reply, I see that I didn't suggest that you have a reptile knowledgeable vet take a look at him, if possible.
If you bring him to a vet, a fresh fecal sample is a plus, since they can check him for internal parasites with fecal exams.

The only 2 in BC on the ARAV website (vets with reptile interest/knowledge)are these but someone on the forum may know others closer to you:
Linda Kaplan
Tri Lake Animal Hospital

www.trilake.ca

10564 Powley Ct.
Lake Country, BC VAV 1V5
(250)766-3236


John Anderson
Anderson Animal Hospital

www.andersonanimalhospital.ca

8465 Granville St.
Vancouver, BC V6P 4Z9
(604)263-6767

MBD is very often the cause of falling and discoordination.
To address the very possible problem of MBD, please read this post by veterinarian and cham-keeper, Ferretinmyshoes:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

The chams pictured are extreme cases, so a cham can hve MBD without looking as bad as these guys. I'm not an expert on Veiled chams by any stretch but his casque (pointy part of the top of his head) appears to be somewhat misshapen to me.
It would be best to see a reptile knowledgeable vet to be certain that that is the actual cause, of course.
 
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I do have a reptile vet already, so I can take him in if I need to. Upon closer examination he is missing some nails from every foot, so I can see why he can't grip very well. I am assuming alot of this has to do with living in a small tank for 1.5 years. *shakes head*
His limbs appear to be nice and straight, but I think he does need to be seen to rule out any issues. I know what you mean about his casque, it does appear to stick up straighter and taller than many others I've seen in pictures.

I did take him in the shower, I'm sure it was his first one. I'm not sure if he liked it or not, he spent quite a bit of time in the spray. I think he had something in his eye, so I hope this got it out. I didn't catch him drinking much though. But I gave him a couple of cupfuls already today anyway.

Pics in the shower soon! He was pretty colourful in there.

Thank you for the links. I will do some reading.
 
In BC, if you are in the Lower Mainland, the best Reptile Vet is:

Dewdney Animal Hospital
Dr. Adrian Walton
11965 228 St., Maple Ridge
(604) 467-1161
www.dewdneyvet.com

If you need a second opinion, apart from your regular vet, Doc Walton comes HIGHLY recommended! Good luck!
 
I think I have an idea what happened to his claws. I was looking at pics from when I got him and he was kept on reptile carpet. He could have got claws stuck in there couldn't he?
 
Yes carpet could very well be how he lost toe nails. When I had a cham the couldn't climb, I took his cage, turned it on the side and set it up so he could never fall very far. I used screen on the area where the bottom had been and the mistking run off went on a towel which was also protection from falling.
 
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