Charlie was prescribed Albon

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Charlie saw the vet just before Christmas with a potential URI. He was gaping on the lower branches of his enclosure for a few days, which is unusual for him (gaping in basking spot or outside is normal). The vet did not see signs of a URI (no excess saliva, sound, etc), and prescribed an "antibiotic" out of an abundance of caution since "these guys are so sensitive."

I've now realized he was prescribed Albon (it was written as smz tmp but a cham forum tech sheet lists it as Albon). I was not aware of this when prescribed, the vet made it sound like your average antibiotic. It wasn't until I emailed her slides from a fecal I ran of Charlie's that she said he was on an antiprotozoal already. I found pinworms in his fecals, but another round item... I'm now wondering if it is plant materials, as it does not look like the coccidia images I have found through research... but I am a novice, so as soon as he poops we'll run the fecal sample up to the vet (they were closed when we got his last poop).

Charlie's still gaping and making me a bit nervous with that, but he seems ok otherwise. He is eating, albeit he is on a different schedule and getting more frequent, but smaller feedings because of it. I've been giving him a hornworm and/or silkworm every morning while I shoot his meds in the corner of his mouth. He ate 1-2 crickets, as well, today, and a superworm. So his appetite seems ok.

I'm not going to start a cage tear down or panic until the vet reviews a fecal... I'm skeptical about coccidia... but now I'm paranoid about him being on Albon. I will continue to ensure he's hydrated and eating well. I've been letting him free range as it keeps him happy and active. The other chams are not sharing his free range, and will not until/unless his fecal is cleared. They have shared a free range in the past, which is concerning... but again, his fecal has not been reviewed by the vet... and I think the "mystery" object could be plant matter.

Any input or advice for what to do and what to watch for while he is on this medicine is appreciated. I'm concerned about him in general, but now doubly concerned as he is on a very harsh medication without any diagnosis.

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, appx 15 months old, in my care 12 months.
  • Handling - Charlie is adventurous and often wants out. Handled only when he insists, and only to take to/from free range, or to run about my shoulder while I am working in his cage. We don't hold them just to hold them.
  • Feeding - We feed a wide variety. Within the last 2 weeks: grasshopper, crickets, silkworms, hornworms, bsfl, bsf, superworms, dubia. Since medication started 7 days ago, he's had primarily hornworms, silkworms, bsf, crickets, and supers. He gets a hornworm and/or silkworm every morning with his meds. Crickets/Dubia are gutloaded with carrots and gutload cubes made from variety of veggies + bug burger. Typical feeding schedule is Tues, Thurs, and either Sat or Sun (3 days a week)
  • Supplements - Repashy LoD every feeding on half the feeders. Repcal's multi vit 1x a month.
  • Watering - Mistking, 4min morning, 1 min evening ( I think, have to check... we had adjusted it during vacation). Sometimes see him drink, usually drinks from leaves not overhead.
  • Fecal Description - His last poo was small, but good consistency / color. Ran a fecal float myself within 24hrs (refrigerated - vet was closed). Pics below... def pinworm, plus mystery circular object. I am wondering if its plant matter... although yo umay see 2 bubbles on some, when focusing/adjusting microscope there are usually many bubbles, not just one or two. Doesn't seem to match the images I've seen of coccidia thus far, but I am not an expert. Previously clean fecal in spring.
  • History - Healthy, active cham that was seen for potential URI... only symptom was gaping in cooler areas of viv.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage. Have a large atrium to move him to, but not until this is over :( His enclosure is bioactive.
  • Lighting - 12hr light schedule. Arcadia 12% I think (will check in AM). T5HO Dual fixture wtih a 6500k + the D3. Sansi LED, basking bulb.
  • Temperature - temp/humidity gauge + hand held temp gun. Will check basking temp in am... readjusted when symptoms presented. I believe it is at 85 degrees on the branch, which should be 90ish on Charlie. Lower section in 70s. He free ranges a lot, and those temps would be low 80s when he does.... at least 2-3x a week. Household temps drop to 65-68 overnight.
  • Humidity - House's ambient humidity is typically around 50%. Cham cages tend to vary between 45-70, with the low end being very cold days where the heat runs more often, and the high end being rainy days and/or around mistings.
  • Plants - Live plants - his cage is primarily scheff arbicola and amate, with a philodendron here and there.
  • Placement - 4' cage on top of a waist high table... Charlie's usually eye height or taller. I'd estimate his cage to be 7' off the ground. Its on first floor in a mild- moderately trafficked area
  • Location - Baltimore MD

Current Problem - already described above. Cham was presribed albon for a URI... concerned about ill effects.

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Here are a few pics from a fecal, which shows pinworm quite clearly (counted 3... he was taking reptaid prior to seeing vet, but we stopped it once prescribed antibiotics). There is a mystery round object with bubbles... but note that it does not have only 1 or 2 bubbles, but many. Even where it may look like 1 or 2, when the microscope is adjusted you will typically see many bubbles.
 

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snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm looking forward to 2020 because 2019 has sucked right up to the very end. On top of Charlie's symptoms, Clarice is currently laying, I found an unidentified parasite in Penelope's poop (she's still quarantined), and Lola's acting unusually (also quarantined). I've had to call the vet every day to see if they have a cancellation to get Lola checked out... she's not quite where I feel she needs an emergency visit, but I do not want to wait until our scheduled annual checkup in 2 weeks. All 6 were scheduled for a checkup on 1/13. :/ I will be surprised if most aren't seen before then! I'm already exhausted and we haven't even started yet.
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Here’s some general pics. Charlie gaping, around time he was brought in. At vets. Charlie gaping today so a closeup mouth shot. Charlie around start of meds... and Charlie’s cage. Pic doesnt do it much justice, its fairly dense towards the top with the arbicola reaching up and blocking most of the light. The bottom 4/5ths of cage dont get much uv (yes I have/use solarmeter).
 

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snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Also - he is getting Albon everyday for 10days. Isnt an on 3 days off x method typically used? Any concern over him taking it 10 days straight? He is on day 7.
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Most of us that's been around awhile use Ponazuril. Before Ponazuril, I use Albon on my chameleon Luie and it made him sick and he stopped eating.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chameleons-and-coccidia-ponazuril-offers-new-hope.16409/

I was doing research with penne’s mystery parasite and was fully prepared to tell the vet I wanted Ponazuril if necessary for her - but had no idea she’d already prescribed albon to poor Charlie.

So far so good, he is eating well and relatively normal, aside from still gaping. I have some benebac ordered that will hopefully arrive tomorrow.
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Also, is Albon typically prescribed for URI? For my own knowledge, whats the most commonly used antibiotic for infections, not parasite treatment?
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
Also, is Albon typically prescribed for URI? For my own knowledge, whats the most commonly used antibiotic for infections, not parasite treatment?

Yes, smz tmp can be used for RI. My vet does a culture and sensitivity test to see what antibiotic response to the type of infection my chameleon has. Sometimes he will start him on an antibiotic and after the culture comes back change to an antibiotic that works better. Allot of vets seem to use Baytril.

How knowledgeable about chameleons is your vet?
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes, smz tmp can be used for RI. My vet does a culture and sensitivity test to see what antibiotic response to the type of infection my chameleon has. Sometimes he will start him on an antibiotic and after the culture comes back change to an antibiotic that works better. Allot of vets seem to use Baytril.

How knowledgeable about chameleons is your vet?

They have a good reputation and were recommended in some old threads on here. They have a few exotic vets - since I squeezed him in I got the first exotic available. Our big checkup in 2 weeks is with the founding vet who seems very experienced, but the vet we saw didnt instill any doubts. Just upset I didnt know it was Albon and no precautions were disclosed about it.
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
He seems to be doing ok so far with it. I just gave him his dose with a hornworm, and 2 supers just to have a lil extra in his tummy. I gave him a dropper of water with the superworms and now hes in his basking spot. Benebac doesnt arrive until Friday, ugh.

I may steam his cage in place tomorrow, while we wait for a poop and fecal results.
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Today is day 8 of Albon meds and Charlie is doing well. 2 more days to go. I still see him occasionally gaping when outside of his basking spot. He is still eating well and has been getting a hornworm daily with his meds. He’s also been out free ranging a few hours each day, squeezing in some natural uvb where I can. I figure it counters the stress of medicating him.

Still no poop. He’s either really good at hiding it, or he hasn’t pooped since xmas eve. It could to either way. I have paper towels down, hope he poops soon so we can bring the vet a sample.

Hanging on the free range today... his gaping pic is from the lamp/sun here. Its 48 and slightly breezy, so a basking lamp is close enough to keep him comfy for the half hour the window was open.

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snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Charlie’s been off Albon for about a week. I gave him two days without any fussing and then started a week of Reptaid. He was still gaping a bit, but a fecal also showed pinworm, which albon does not treat. I’m not claiming the Reptaid cured him, it could be that the antibiotics were still working their magic, but after a week on Reptaid and closely (omg so closely) monitoring his temps, he seems back to his old self. I’ve also been dusting his feeders with BeneBac, a probiotic.

Now I am anxiously waiting for him to poop a cadillac, as I have been watching for poop since Christmas-ish! I dont think he is constipated or uncomfortable. His enclosure is bioactive and its possible he did a good job hiding it, but im hovering. I had paper towels down for a while but I decided not to add to his stress while on the meds, and then I did a deep cage clean... so time to add them again.

I just loaded this puppy up today with 3 hornworms, a silkworm, and some water. Now we wait... :cool: ... glasses are for eye protection because this is gonna be a poop for the record books!
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Well I found the little hoarder’s poo stash. It was mostly milky white urates, which is fantastic as I was giving him primarily hornworms and a silkworm daily with meds. It looked like pigeon poo... a tiny poop that could be old, not sure.

Paper towels are down... he’s had 2 large adult dubia this week so he should have a good one for me!

Whats that back there in the cork tube?
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Bullseye buddy!
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janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
Charlie’s been off Albon for about a week. I gave him two days without any fussing and then started a week of Reptaid. He was still gaping a bit, but a fecal also showed pinworm, which albon does not treat. I’m not claiming the Reptaid cured him, it could be that the antibiotics were still working their magic, but after a week on Reptaid and closely (omg so closely) monitoring his temps, he seems back to his old self. I’ve also been dusting his feeders with BeneBac, a probiotic.

Now I am anxiously waiting for him to poop a cadillac, as I have been watching for poop since Christmas-ish! I dont think he is constipated or uncomfortable. His enclosure is bioactive and its possible he did a good job hiding it, but im hovering. I had paper towels down for a while but I decided not to add to his stress while on the meds, and then I did a deep cage clean... so time to add them again.

I just loaded this puppy up today with 3 hornworms, a silkworm, and some water. Now we wait... :cool: ... glasses are for eye protection because this is gonna be a poop for the record books!
I was also giving Basil Reptaid when he was too small to be treated for the coccidia. He had a very high count (4+), I only had to do the normal doses and his first fecal was clean. IMO I do think the Reptaid helped as well. I give him a booster dose every other month. Glad Charlie (I really want to call him Chuck :hilarious: ) is doing better!!
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
I was also giving Basil Reptaid when he was too small to be treated for the coccidia. He had a very high count (4+), I only had to do the normal doses and his first fecal was clean. IMO I do think the Reptaid helped as well. I give him a booster dose every other month. Glad Charlie (I really want to call him Chuck :hilarious: ) is doing better!!

Haha! We has a photocopier at work named Charles and someone put a post it on it that said “‘but my friends call me chuck.” :D
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
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Its been 17 hours and 16 days.... since I found a Charlie poop. AhhhhhHHHHhhhh.

I search every night and every day....
Since you took your poops away. AhhhHHHHhhhh.

Since you been sick you could eat whatever you wannnnnt. You can eat whatever you choose. AhhhHHHHhhhhhh.

You can eat your buggies in a fancy restaurantttt.

But no one... I said no one can find my Charlie’s pooooooooooop.

Cause NOTHINGGGG can make... him pooooooooo. I said nothING can make... him pooooooooooo.
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
We have poop!!!! This little turd (pun intended ;)) hid his business in and behind his cork bark tree. Somehow he missed every papertowel and pooped in a 1” opening against the screen.

Anyway... I have a sample! Fairly certain it was from tonight so im going to get the hubs to drive it (50mins away) to the vet. We have a group checkup on tuesday, too... but im going to run my own fecal on it tonight). His urates were perfect, which is a relief. A hornworm a day keeps the orange away! It has also made Charlie slightly chunky so the diet starts tomorrow pal!
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Charlie’s fecal looks pretty good! I did see a single pinworm egg, which is disappointing ... but i didnt do a full course of reptaid (ran out at 7 days). I am fairly confident the full course would knock them out. A full course is 10 days on, 2 off, 10 on. I did see two questionable items which I think might be pollen and/or plant materials. Im going to wait on a vet fecal since Im not positive how fresh it is.
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
Everyone saw the vet today! Charlie got the all clear... the vet kept saying how awesome he looked, and saw no signs of URI. He did prescribe Pancur after showing him the pinworms I found in his poop. Of course no one pooped so we didnt have a sample for vet to run themselves, but we will run them back up once we do.

Charlie is now the biggest of the bunch! Hard to believe, as he still seems like a kid to me, where as the older panthers are stout little beefcakes.

Charlie was 198g (gained a little weight on Albon thanks to hornworms/silkworms)
Donnie 192g
Walter 188g (expected him to be biggest)
Clarice 106g (just laid eggs)
Lola 49g
Penelope 44g
 
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