Chameleon Tongue
- Thread starter srod2591
- Start date
LizardLurkin
Avid Member
Is it that she's missing completely, or that she snags them but they fall off?
For the former, it could be something wrong with her eyes. When my chameleon's eye was crusting over, he missed his bugs a few feedings. Though, they can also be pretty clumsy about keeping their food in their mouth, especially if they net several bugs at once.
I am aware that tongue issues can also be a result of improper supplementation, be it of vitamins or uvb. It'd be helpful for you to fill out this form and we can help narrow it down.
Chameleon Info:
Cage Info:
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
For the former, it could be something wrong with her eyes. When my chameleon's eye was crusting over, he missed his bugs a few feedings. Though, they can also be pretty clumsy about keeping their food in their mouth, especially if they net several bugs at once.
I am aware that tongue issues can also be a result of improper supplementation, be it of vitamins or uvb. It'd be helpful for you to fill out this form and we can help narrow it down.
Chameleon Info:
- Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
- Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
- Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
- Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
- Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
- Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
- History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
- Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
- Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
- Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
- Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
- Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
- Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
- Location - Where are you geographically located?
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
srod2591
New Member
The bugs seem to “bounce off her tongue.
Her enclosure is a screen. I have a shower curtain on two of the sides because I was having humidity problems. Keep it above 40 during the day. I try to get it high during the night. I keep the humidifier on the highest setting. She has live plants.
She is in a high traffic area but is also not up high enough.
I’m in the Midwest.
- Cleo is a veiled chameleon. She is about 6-8 months. I have had her for about a month and a half.
- I handle her often. Basically everyday. She will crawl on me when I am feeding her. I will take her out of her enclosure on “field trips” to let her climb on my other chameleon safe plants that I have around my house.
- She is eating about 30 Dubia roaches a day. I am giving them food. They eat orange cube cricket food as well. She will often eat a few crickets a day as well but she doesn’t really like them. She often eats bites of the plants that are in her enclosure as well but I have been giving her more greens the past few weeks for more nutrients.
- I dust her feeders with zoo med repti calcium without D3 and zoo med reptivite with D3. I think I haven’t been giving the supplements correctly. I should have been giving her the calcium twice a week…. I think?
- I see her drink sometimes. Not everyday but enough. I use a dripper and I mist her twice a day for 1.5-2 minutes. Right before I turn her lights on and then right before I turn them off for the night. I have a constant humidifier on. I keep her humidity above 40% during the day. I am still in the process of saving up for a fogger. I will be getting one soon.
- I have never taken her to the vet. Her poop is big! With white stuff at the end. She poops about twice a day. Looks normal in wetness and everything.
Her enclosure is a screen. I have a shower curtain on two of the sides because I was having humidity problems. Keep it above 40 during the day. I try to get it high during the night. I keep the humidifier on the highest setting. She has live plants.
She is in a high traffic area but is also not up high enough.
I’m in the Midwest.
LizardLurkin
Avid Member
30 dubias is way too many bugs daily! I'm unsure of when this becomes a concern, but female veileds can reach sexual maturity as early as 6 months old, and when we feed them too much, they produce insanely large clutches. We want to avoid large clutches as a whole, so that we can lessen the risk of eggbinding in the girls. To quote the chameleon academy's veiled chameleon care page (A very informative and important read overall!):
"Our other concern is that abnormal clutch development in females is tied to too much heat and too much food. Both heat and food energize the chameleon’s body and we have shown in the community what happens when you do this. Female chameleons produce so many eggs they are called marble bags. And there is a disturbing trend among some veterinary offices to do proactive spaying of chameleons to remove egg binding risk. The solution is to lower basking temperature and feed less. This is the reason behind my recommendation of 85°F maximum when the general advice is 90°F or greater. This is a husbandry trend that is slowly turning around. Veiled chameleon females at lower temperatures and feedings are much less likely to produce infertile clutches and the clutch sizes are reasonable. The reason why this has not overtaken the older information yet is because the segments of the community experimenting with this is still working on nailing down the exact parameters. Going too low in temperature and food intake is a health risk so we need to repeat it across a wide number of chameleons with a wide number of keepers to ensure the numbers are correct. Currently, these groups are working with basking temperatures of 80°F. The recommendation of 85°F here is to reflect that I want to see more repeating of the successes with no issues before 80°F becomes part of the care summary. An 80°F basking site has produced excellent results so far. This is a critical topic and we are in a significant community transition."
I will also attach images of good feeder variety, as well as recommended gutload foods. The orange cube cricket foods are really only good at keeping the bugs hydrated, as opposed to nutritious. I also super recommend making gutload icecubes. These keep in the freezer for 6 months, and the batches go really slowly. What I do is, the night before, I grab the roaches I want, I cut off a piece of a gutload cube, and put it in my feeder cup with the bugs so they can have time enough to eat it before putting the cup in the enclosure the following morning/afternoon. I also use repashy bug burger to keep the other bugs fed overall.
As for the number of bugs you should do daily, can any of the female cham experienced keepers chime in? I know for a growing cham you will feed like ten or so bugs, but I imagine at possibly 8 months old is when you'd start slowing intake down. Adult chams usually eat around 3 decently sized bugs every other day.
Variety is also important for our chams. For me, personally, I have dubias, BSFL, and silkworms as my staple, with hornworms and waxworms less often in the rotation.
As for your supplementation; zoo med repti calcium without d3 should be used at every feeding, while reptivite is given once biweekly (twice a month! I'm never sure how to word this understandably) On the two days of the month where you use reptivite, you will pass on reptical w/o d3. But every day otherwise, every bug gets dusted!
I hope that's easy to follow.
What are her lights like? Do you use a t5 linear uvb bulb? It is crucial for chameleons. It helps their bones grow healthy, and their tongues are basically rocketed forward by a bone, so it's something to consider.
Hopefully, with some adjustments, she'll improve at grabbing bugs again. I do know quite a few people here are quite accustomed to tongue issues and maybe have more wisdoms, whereas I only feel confident at basic husbandry checks
EDIT: As for humidity, I know foggers are generally recommended if your temps are below 68 farenheit. It's really tough to reach those nighttime highs. I have a mister which does a 3rd misting session over the night just to keep things in check. I will say, lots of live plants are really good at keeping humidity in a good range though.
"Our other concern is that abnormal clutch development in females is tied to too much heat and too much food. Both heat and food energize the chameleon’s body and we have shown in the community what happens when you do this. Female chameleons produce so many eggs they are called marble bags. And there is a disturbing trend among some veterinary offices to do proactive spaying of chameleons to remove egg binding risk. The solution is to lower basking temperature and feed less. This is the reason behind my recommendation of 85°F maximum when the general advice is 90°F or greater. This is a husbandry trend that is slowly turning around. Veiled chameleon females at lower temperatures and feedings are much less likely to produce infertile clutches and the clutch sizes are reasonable. The reason why this has not overtaken the older information yet is because the segments of the community experimenting with this is still working on nailing down the exact parameters. Going too low in temperature and food intake is a health risk so we need to repeat it across a wide number of chameleons with a wide number of keepers to ensure the numbers are correct. Currently, these groups are working with basking temperatures of 80°F. The recommendation of 85°F here is to reflect that I want to see more repeating of the successes with no issues before 80°F becomes part of the care summary. An 80°F basking site has produced excellent results so far. This is a critical topic and we are in a significant community transition."
I will also attach images of good feeder variety, as well as recommended gutload foods. The orange cube cricket foods are really only good at keeping the bugs hydrated, as opposed to nutritious. I also super recommend making gutload icecubes. These keep in the freezer for 6 months, and the batches go really slowly. What I do is, the night before, I grab the roaches I want, I cut off a piece of a gutload cube, and put it in my feeder cup with the bugs so they can have time enough to eat it before putting the cup in the enclosure the following morning/afternoon. I also use repashy bug burger to keep the other bugs fed overall.
As for the number of bugs you should do daily, can any of the female cham experienced keepers chime in? I know for a growing cham you will feed like ten or so bugs, but I imagine at possibly 8 months old is when you'd start slowing intake down. Adult chams usually eat around 3 decently sized bugs every other day.
Variety is also important for our chams. For me, personally, I have dubias, BSFL, and silkworms as my staple, with hornworms and waxworms less often in the rotation.
As for your supplementation; zoo med repti calcium without d3 should be used at every feeding, while reptivite is given once biweekly (twice a month! I'm never sure how to word this understandably) On the two days of the month where you use reptivite, you will pass on reptical w/o d3. But every day otherwise, every bug gets dusted!
I hope that's easy to follow.
What are her lights like? Do you use a t5 linear uvb bulb? It is crucial for chameleons. It helps their bones grow healthy, and their tongues are basically rocketed forward by a bone, so it's something to consider.
Hopefully, with some adjustments, she'll improve at grabbing bugs again. I do know quite a few people here are quite accustomed to tongue issues and maybe have more wisdoms, whereas I only feel confident at basic husbandry checks
EDIT: As for humidity, I know foggers are generally recommended if your temps are below 68 farenheit. It's really tough to reach those nighttime highs. I have a mister which does a 3rd misting session over the night just to keep things in check. I will say, lots of live plants are really good at keeping humidity in a good range though.
Please post some photos of your chameleon from today so we can see all of her from the side.
If you’re not following the info @LizardLurkin quoted to you, your chameleon may be heading for reproductive issues. That is not to do with the tongue issue, but needs to be addressed.
You should be using the calcium without D3 at every feeding but twice a month, lightly and twice a month use a vitamin powder with vitamin D3 and a preformed source of vitamin A.
The tongue issue could be from a number of things. Improper supplementing could be part of it.
Do you have a proper egg laying bin in the cage at all times?
If you’re not following the info @LizardLurkin quoted to you, your chameleon may be heading for reproductive issues. That is not to do with the tongue issue, but needs to be addressed.
You should be using the calcium without D3 at every feeding but twice a month, lightly and twice a month use a vitamin powder with vitamin D3 and a preformed source of vitamin A.
The tongue issue could be from a number of things. Improper supplementing could be part of it.
Do you have a proper egg laying bin in the cage at all times?
srod2591
New Member
I made an egg laying bin but I someone told me they thought she had a parasite!
Attachments
Similar threads
