Chameleon has possible fluid build up? Help!

[Wookiegoldfur]

Hey there! I'm new here and am coming here as a last resort because I don't know what is happening with my chameleon and my vet can't give me clear a clear confirmation to what is wrong. About 2 weeks ago my sister and I were looking in his cage (new years eve) and he looked slightly bloated which was really odd because he was fine days before. He fell twice in that same day, me running to help him back on his branch each time, and then finally taking him out. He seemed to be falling ill really quickly, it was really scaring me. As I was holding him (which was something he was never comfortable with me doing for too long) he kept falling asleep on me. I took him to the vet on the 5th of this month (the only time the reptile doctor was in at the clinic) to get answers on why he became bloated. I was *hoping (and not hoping) that it was just constipation. I paid 250 dollars for an examination and x-rays only to have them still not know what is wrong. The doctor said it looks like he has fluid build up or his liver his enlarged. He didn't has much excrement inside him at all. The doctor told me to increase the temp in his cage and give him warm baths. I'm extremely concerned for Chris Angel (that's his name).

Breed: Veiled
Age: 2-2.5 years. I got him when he was about 6 months old at petco (before I learned that is not a good place to get chams)
Sex: Male
Enclosure: 2.5x3.0 ft (guesstimate) entirely mesh wire.
Lighting: 2 UV bulbs (26w), 1 daylight basking bulb (100w), 1 night bulb (75w)
Temp: 78-80 degrees (as of now)
Watering system: constant drip and misting by spray bottle.
Diet: Crickets, kale, spinach, mealworms. He's a picky boy. I think he's tried zucchini once and refuses anything else.
Vitamins: calcium+d3, herptivite +beta carotene dust
Extra: 1 Live ficus plant (no leaves because they fell off from shock. Accidentally left it outside when i cleaned his cage. oops), many long sticks, fake vines and fake bushy plants. ABSOLUTELY NO SUBSTRATE.

(The pictures dont do much justice on just how bloated he is. I hope that was all the info needed. I don't know what is required, sorry).

We didn't notice his bloating until after his last batch of crickets (which has now been maybe a month ago **since purchase). It makes me worry that maybe I bought a bad bunch this go around and am the reason he has fallen ill so fast. I've been avoiding feeding his too much because he has gotten so large that I'm afraid he might pop. I've been feeding him 5-10 mealworms a day. Depends on how willing he is to eat on his own. He only ate 1 today. I've given him a few showers and some soaks to see if it will help. And it hasn't. Some days he looks slightly smaller and other days I'm worried he wont be able to support himself. When he went to the vet he weighed 205 grams. I feel helpless right now. I feel like all I can do is keep his comfortable and let him go when he's ready. If there is nothing I can do to help him, is there anyway to know if he's in pain? If he is I can't let him live on like that for me. I'd rather take him in to be put to sleep than to make him stay in pain. I want him to be as comfortable as possible. I will attach pictures of his x-rays. inverted and not inverted if that helps. They are kind of poor quality because I had to take pictures of them with my phone (the vet put them on a disk for me but only viewable under some stupid program)

If there is nothing I can do for him my hopes are to at least have this info available for other cham owners to reference if their cham falls ill like mine.

 

[laurie]

I will admit to having no idea except he is eating tons more than he should. At his age he should eat 3 times a week, maybe 6 or 7 feeders each time.

I will send a pm to one of the vets here on the forum and see if she has any ideas. Best of luck.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Wow! First off let me say I'm sorry Chris Angel isn't doing well. Those X-rays are pretty darn impressive. I've never seen a cham X-ray quite like that. Let me point out what I can tell you though. I do not think we're dealing with fluid buildup because then the whole body would look the same inside, usually a grayish color. But do you see how you can see a tube like structure separate above the giant blob? That is a segment of intestine. If that big blob was free fluid filling up the body then you wouldn't be able to see that because the fluid would make it blend in and be indistinguishable. That means whatever the blob is is either solid or a fluid filled sac keeping it contained. With an ultrasound quick peek I'd be able to tell if it was fluid or solid tissue. With either a fluid filled sac or a mass of solid tissue it unfortunately does not look good for long term. It isn't an intestinal blockage because the intestines would burst before getting that large, and it's not eggs since he's a male. If it is a fluid filled sac it may be possible to drain the fluid to both get a better idea of what may be causing it and increase his comfort level. Tumors aren't common in reptiles but they do happen. If it is not fluid that is what I'd be most worried about given its very round shape. An (enormously) enlarged liver most likely would not be that round, and I've never seen one get anywhere near that large in any species. So unfortunately a few more diagnostics are needed to get more info but the possible causes are not good unfortunately. In some cases tumors can be surgically removed but it depends on where they originate from and what they are. That would be a difficult surgery given the size of it. It's so large it's reducing his lung capacity right now and I'm sure squeezing his intestines and everything else making him quite uncomfortable.

As much as I hate to say it, it may be in his best interest to consider euthanasia if he's not doing well because I can guarantee he is very uncomfortable and your options are very limited. If you do decide that is the best option for him I'd highly encourage you to consider asking your vet to do an autopsy to try to get a better idea of what that is in there. I would love to know since it's so interesting on the X-rays. And it might give you some peace of mind to know more. I often do those at no charge to my clients so I can learn from them too. To know exactly what it is often requires sending samples to the lab, which is a bit costly, but even just a visual exam can give a lot of good information. I don't mean to insensitive by any means, but that would give you the chance to know you did everything you could because I doubt it would be anything you could fix.

 

[laurie]

Thanks Dayna, I just hoped to get some answers for the op. I knew you could help.

 

[Wookiegoldfur]

Status Update on Chris Angel

Thank you to both of you. I am doing what I can to keep Chris Angel comfortable right now. He has refused food the past couple days and I didn't want to force him to eat if he didn't want to. However, he ate 5 meal worms today and perked up a bit afterwards. I didn't try to give him any more. He is still drinking and producing digested excrement more regularly than he was before (he was having a dry period for a while). He is still mobile and can support his weight while hanging vertically. His grip is still strong and he hasn't fallen since that last time. The bloating hasn't changed. It sometimes shifts more to one side than the other, that could be due to his own weight distribution of course. His coloration is slightly yellower-could that be from the temperature increase of his enclosure or is he trying to say he doesn't feel well? He yawned and continued to hold his mouth open for a couple minutes earlier. I was worried he yawned too hard and somehow dislocated his jaw but he was fine. I read that that's somewhat how a chameleon "pants"? Am I wrong?

How do I know when and if it's time to let him go? My worry is that I will be euthanizing a cham that will otherwise make through it. That could be my own denial blinding me from what's important; his health and happiness.

 

[Carlton]

Thank you to both of you. I am doing what I can to keep Chris Angel comfortable right now. He has refused food the past couple days and I didn't want to force him to eat if he didn't want to. However, he ate 5 meal worms today and perked up a bit afterwards. I didn't try to give him any more. He is still drinking and producing digested excrement more regularly than he was before (he was having a dry period for a while). He is still mobile and can support his weight while hanging vertically. His grip is still strong and he hasn't fallen since that last time. The bloating hasn't changed. It sometimes shifts more to one side than the other, that could be due to his own weight distribution of course. His coloration is slightly yellower-could that be from the temperature increase of his enclosure or is he trying to say he doesn't feel well? He yawned and continued to hold his mouth open for a couple minutes earlier. I was worried he yawned too hard and somehow dislocated his jaw but he was fine. I read that that's somewhat how a chameleon "pants"? Am I wrong?

How do I know when and if it's time to let him go? My worry is that I will be euthanizing a cham that will otherwise make through it. That could be my own denial blinding me from what's important; his health and happiness.

Yes, chams gape (pant) when they are getting too warm, and also sometimes after shooting prey to re-settle their tongues.

As for when he might be ready to leave you, I watch for signs that the creature has lost interest in doing his normal daily things...reacting to temperature shifts, not wanting to move in response to light, not eating or drinking. Just sitting quiet, eyes shut, not reacting to anything, color may look odd, with large uncoordinated patches of dark or light color that don't seem to be related to stimuli.

 

[jajeanpierre]

How do I know when and if it's time to let him go? My worry is that I will be euthanizing a cham that will otherwise make through it. That could be my own denial blinding me from what's important; his health and happiness.

I think you need to re-read Ferretinmyshoes' response. If he can't breathe he will be suffering and distressed. Sorry.

 

[ridgebax1]

It also looks like he had significant MBD. I have been absent from the forums and that may have already been identified and addressed. It is hard to know when the time is right, especially if he does not seem to be having any pain or other symptoms, but chameleons are truly the masters of camouflage and often do not display outward signs of distress as that makes them more vulnerable in the wild. I would be curious also as to what the mass in his stomach could be. I know you will do the right thing for him as an owner and caregiver.