Chameleon Elbow's ? Whats Normal ?

[Rufi0]

Hey guys, my panther chameleon is 18 months old and i've noticed as he's grown (what i think are his elbows) becoming more pronounced. They are the same on both his front arms and are in the exact same position which led me to presume they are just his elbows being more defined as he's reached adulthood. I just wanted to double check this is the normal.

I broke one of my knuckles on my hand when I was younger and the way that it healed itself as it was untreated made a little part protrude. I'm worried that perhaps at some point he's fallen and braced the impact with his arms and has broken/fractured them and this is a result of extra bone formation to heal it?

He has no problems with any of his limbs, and has as strong a grip as he ever has.

He's scheduled to have his 6 month fecal done soon so once I find a exotic vet in Vienna i'll bring it up when he has his checkup, but thought i'd check with the forum, and hoping it's normal, someone can post a picture of their cham's elbows to put me at ease.

Thanks in advance

Pete

 

[jpowell86]

He's a beefy boy! Strangely enough it does look like arm fractures have occurred in your guy. Fractures can cause the "double elbow" look. But with it being so symmetrical, I would want to discount that theory. What is your supplement routine?? I am curious as to whether it may be some calcium deposits.

 

[Rufi0]

Thanks for your reply jpowell

lol thought he would never be called beefy, he was the runt of his hatch, finally got him up to a good 150 grams.

Supplement routine is one which was recommended by the exotic store I bought Nosy from and was reaffirmed by my exotic vet in London.

Alternately dustings feeds with Calcium dust and Nutribal which is a Calcium + D3 supplement here in Europe.

At the moment he is fed every other day.

I know this sounds like over prescribing the D3 supplementation and the recommendation i've seen here on Chameleonforums is twice a month max. I checked this with my exotic vet as it was contrasting advise and he said it was down to the levels of the D3 in the Nutribal which allowed it to be supplied more frequently then other D3 supplements you find in the states.

Nutribal
200mg calcium & 150IU vitamin D3, plus vitamins A C E K B1 B2 B6 B12 folic, nicotinic & pantothenic acids, biotin choline niacin and minerals P Na Fe Co I Mn Zn Se Cu.

Once per month I offer a feeder food covered in Cod Liver Oil for preform vitamin A supplementation (i've only been doing this for the last 3 months after the preformed vitamin A post on here a while ago)

He is fed a variety of feeder foods (at the time when i was in London, now its a lot harder to find such a variety in Austria):

Locusts, Crickets, Dubia, Calciworms, Calciworm flies, Superworms, Butterworms,Silkworms.
Apart from the silkworms and flies, fed on fresh fruit and veg, with oat mix mixed with a little calcium, flax seeds.

Stick insects
Fed on blackberry bramble

 

[kelly_girl199]

Thanks for your reply jpowell

lol thought he would never be called beefy, he was the runt of his hatch, finally got him up to a good 150 grams.

Supplement routine is one which was recommended by the exotic store I bought Nosy from and was reaffirmed by my exotic vet in London.

Alternately dustings feeds with Calcium dust and Nutribal which is a Calcium + D3 supplement here in Europe.

At the moment he is fed every other day.

I know this sounds like over prescribing the D3 supplementation and the recommendation i've seen here on Chameleonforums is twice a month max. I checked this with my exotic vet as it was contrasting advise and he said it was down to the levels of the D3 in the Nutribal which allowed it to be supplied more frequently then other D3 supplements you find in the states.

Nutribal
200mg calcium & 150IU vitamin D3, plus vitamins A C E K B1 B2 B6 B12 folic, nicotinic & pantothenic acids, biotin choline niacin and minerals P Na Fe Co I Mn Zn Se Cu.

Once per month I offer a feeder food covered in Cod Liver Oil for preform vitamin A supplementation (i've only been doing this for the last 3 months after the preformed vitamin A post on here a while ago)

He is fed a variety of feeder foods (at the time when i was in London, now its a lot harder to find such a variety in Austria):

Locusts, Crickets, Dubia, Calciworms, Calciworm flies, Superworms, Butterworms,Silkworms.
Apart from the silkworms and flies, fed on fresh fruit and veg, with oat mix mixed with a little calcium, flax seeds.

Stick insects
Fed on blackberry bramble

Did you ever find out what this was caused from?

 

[Rufi0]

Hey Kelly_girl199 he had his fecal done and a checkup. He also had signs of a gular edema.

We found in his bloodwork that he likely had kidney problems. (Don't worry he's still doing fine and going strong ) The vet wanted to see if his kidneys / liver were enlarged and so did an x-ray and so I mentioned the elbows to him and we had a look. There were no breakages in his arms that the vet could see on the xray (I should have asked him to give me a copy) His opinion was that he has no problems mechanically and his grip was really strong and just to keep an eye on it but didn't seemed concerned.

To be honest we were more concerned with the kidney disease and the stress that resulted from giving Nosy his treatment over the few weeks (We thought we were going to loose him ) However he's doing well and I will try and bring it up again at his next visitation and get a copy of the x-rays.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help

 

[kelly_girl199]

Hey Kelly_girl199 he had his fecal done and a checkup. He also had signs of a gular edema.

We found in his bloodwork that he likely had kidney problems. (Don't worry he's still doing fine and going strong ) The vet wanted to see if his kidneys / liver were enlarged and so did an x-ray and so I mentioned the elbows to him and we had a look. There were no breakages in his arms that the vet could see on the xray (I should have asked him to give me a copy) His opinion was that he has no problems mechanically and his grip was really strong and just to keep an eye on it but didn't seemed concerned.

To be honest we were more concerned with the kidney disease and the stress that resulted from giving Nosy his treatment over the few weeks (We thought we were going to loose him ) However he's doing well and I will try and bring it up again at his next visitation and get a copy of the x-rays.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help

No! It is of help! My guy randomly had a bump show up on his arm like that. It doesn't seem to be on the bone.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@Rufi0 My guess is pseudo gout.

 

[bobcochran]

I am curious as to whether it may be some calcium deposits.

I think Joel might be on the something, gout isn't usually so symetrical. The swelling on his lower legs in the second pic could be from his liver and kidney problems but the bumps on the elbows probably not.