cham wont shoot his toungue out, vitB or vitB deficiency

[greg nan]

my male furcifer verrucosus wont eat properly, he wont stick his toungue out, he still drinks everyday, im thinking hes not getting enough of somthing but i dont know what it is, when i used to hand feed him i would hold a worm about half a foot from the tip of his nose and he couldnt hit it, he would land short, so i would end up feeding it straight into his mouth, he rarely eats, only when i feed him, i just want to know whats wrong, if anyone can help that would be greatly appreciated!
thanks,

 

[Battlecat29]

He might have gotten used to being hand fed so close. Try cup feeding. Use a Decent size container. Cut a section out so your chameleon has a good visual. Place a screen in container and crickets will climb on. Place a limb in front of the container. Your chameleon can approach container from farther away and have a clear target. It will be good exercise. Gotta get him used to a further distance. I have been using repashy plus every other feeding for a year and a half and my chameleon is doing great. Gut load with bug burger. When it gets warm out - take him out to get some real sun. I'm sure that will give him energy to shoot his tongue. Obviously keep him hydrated.

 

[TiffanyMariexo]

My Spiny won't eat on his own either but due to mouth rot. If you notice discoloration or a bad smell from his mouth check it out because he could be too sore to do it. Mine was a rescue.

 

[carol5208]

yeah have you checked the inside of his mouth?

 

[greg nan]

yeah have you checked the inside of his mouth?

His mouth looks clean, pink and is wet. He drinks everyday. But won't eat most of the time. What does mouth rot look like?

 

[sandrachameleon]

what feeder prey do you offer, and what do you gutload that prey with?
Vitamin B deficiency is a possibility, one of many.

You may find this blog entry useful:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/232-tongue-troubles.html

 

[Lilly16]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Panther (Ambilobe), male, 1 year, 4 months. in my care for 4 months
Handling - every couple of days, vary the lengthing, 10 mins to 1 hour
Feeding - 80% crickets, 20% superworms. hornworms as a treat. about 10-12 bugs every other day, in the morning after lights have been on for minimum an hour.
Supplements - exoterra calcium +D3 once a week
Watering - Spray min twice a day, 2 mins each time. Running waterfall on 12 hours a day. Cham drinks from fountain, drops of water and even my spray bottle. he loves it
Fecal Description - Brown, not runny, urate is good, slight orange colour. never tested for parasites
History - after contacting the breeder he mentioned some of his chams had had an eye infections but drops resolved the problem

Cage Info:
Cage Type - screen, 1 side plastic, 4 foot by 2 by 2
Lighting - exoterra. day (12 hours): Two 100W heat lights, one 2.0 compact UVB, one 5.0 compact UVB. night (12 hours): one 75W blue night heat light
Temperature - 80-95 day. Lowest overnight 70. Measure temp and humidity with hygrometer
Humidity - 35-45% created by spraying min twice a day, and waterfall running 12 hours a day
Plants - all fake plants, vines and wood his dried and sand blasted
Placement - Bedroom corner, low traffic, not close to vents, window is a few feet away but has black out curtains. hight of top of the tank is 6 feet from floor
Location - Stouffville Ontaio, (GTA)

Current Problem - Eye problems have been around since week 1 that i got him. He was missing crickets, then we a goop formed on both eyes. when it hardened became impossible for him to see. we used saline solution, results only lasted a day. We were cleaning out his eye on and off for the first month and a half. then took him to a reptile vet where they examined him and said he is healthy. gave him a shot of vit B, and gave us an eye ointment tobrex to use 3 times daily for two weeks. Because this made his vision even foggier we were 'force feeding' him in the mean time because he was loosing weight. After a month of off and on results we took him to a dif reptile vet where they prescribed ciloxan. Again, some improvement but not really. We have tried adjusting everything from placements of light, cleaning the tank for bacteria, changing the layout, spraying more, handling less, you name it. My cham is very easy going. One correlation we find is that when crickets are placed in the cage, within half an hour the eye problem appears. also when force fed it happens. I have tried buying crickets from 4 different pet stores to see if there were a bad batch, and to my surprise this didnt change anything. IS IT POSSIBLE MY CHAM IS ALLERGIC? OR HAVE STRESS INDUCED EYE PROBLEMS? PLEASE HELP!
Thanks

 

[Lenny21]

Omg I have the same problem and its so frustrating because vets don't give me an answer!! Can anyone help us plz!!!

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hi
Sorry to be the one to tell you, but some of your husbandry isn't good.
These are my suggestions:


More prey variety. Aim to have no one feeder prey choice make up more than 20% of your chameleons diet. Crickets and superworms alone are not IMHO a very good range of prey.

You should be dusting your crickets with calcium (but not D3) EVERY time you offer them. Crickets have a terrible calcium to phosphorous ratio. Your chameleon is very likely lacking calcium, and that can effect muscles like the tongue. You need a phosphorous and vitamin free calcium/mineral supplement to use the majority of the time you offer crickets or superworms.

You didn't indicate what you feed the crickets. How you gutload is very important to the health of your chameleon. Please describe how you feed your crickets and superworms. Could very well be a vitamin deficiency in addition to a lack of sufficient calcium.

Remove the waterfall. They serve no useful purpose and harbour bacteria and filth. Your chameleon should NEVER drink from a fountain like that if you don't want him to get sick.
That the urate is orange suggests the chameleon is dehydrated. Which isn't too suprising if his main choice for water is a horrible waterfall fountain. 2 minutes of spraying is not adequate. Spray for at least 5 minutes each time, and consider adding a dripper.

You do not want a light on at night. And it sounds like you have too many lights on during the day. This could be irritating his eyes. Some compact UVB lamps have also been known to cause eye damage. Though Exoterra compacts are usually fine. Still the Tubes are the better product.
How are you monitoring the temperature? With two 100watt lights I would expect the temps to be roasting. The basking area is okay at up to 90F but the rest of the cage needs to be lower than that.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Omg I have the same problem and its so frustrating because vets don't give me an answer!! Can anyone help us plz!!!

Lenny you should start your own thread, as likely your chameleon's situation is different. Also do check the information in the link I provided earlier in this thread.

 

[Lilly16]

Thank you for your help sandrachameleon.
I am gut loading my feeders with a variety of fruits, vegetables and whole grain bread. The waterfall gets cleaned very regularly and he has come to know it very well... do you still suggest removing it? While it does seem like a lot of lights, it is the amount needed to get the right temps. I am using a hygrometer to measure both temp and humidity. I was finding the temp was dropping too low at night ( around or below 70), hence the night glow. it doesnt effect his sleeping at all.

We have him on tube lights now (past two days) as suggested. he is hooked up to a mist king misting system which regulates the his humidity peaking at 100% and then slowly drying to about 40% over the course of the day, doing this 3 times daily. We still find that he is not interested in the food, and HIS EYES GOOP UP WITHIN 30 MINS OF CRICKETS IN THE CAGE. About an hour after feeding, eyes go back to healthy, this is why I believe it is either a stress induced problem or allergies.

You say to feed him more of a variety, what do you suggest? I live in toronto canada and the variety is not always abundant.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I am gut loading my feeders with a variety of fruits, vegetables and whole grain bread.

bread isn't a great choice. Can you be more specific about the fruits and veg?
also do you use a multi-vitamin supplement (other than Calcium with D3)

The waterfall gets cleaned very regularly and he has come to know it very well... do you still suggest removing it?

Do you clean it daily? Do you clean the insides (they usually have tubes inside that are difficult to remove and clean)? Do you clean it with peroxide or similar (not just soap/water/wipe)?
If you answer no to any of these, yes I would remove it and provide water in a more natural and clean way, such as with a dripper (also cleaned regularly) and frequent long mistings.
I find drippers (which are nearly free to make) are the best for watering chams.

While it does seem like a lot of lights, it is the amount needed to get the right temps. I am using a hygrometer to measure both temp and humidity. I was finding the temp was dropping too low at night ( around or below 70), hence the night glow. it doesnt effect his sleeping at all.

gosh You must have a terribly cold home to need two 100watt bulbs. That or maybe your temp guage isn't working well? Do you have a second one you could double check with?
Below 70 at night is fine. below 60 and I might consider warming the room or a ceramic heat bulb (which emits no light).

I believe it is either a stress induced problem or allergies.

that seems highly unlikely to me. I'd be more inclined to go with a parasite, an infection or a deficiency over cricket allergy.
But you can try to rule it in or out. Are you hand feeding? bowl/cup feeding? Have you ruled out contamination from soap, bacteria etc? Keep a log - does it only happen with dusted crickets or also undusted crickets? Does it happen with roaches? butterworms? stick insects? etc. Does it happen if the prey is in the cage or only if he eats the prey? Time how long between his eating and the eye issue. log exactly when the eye goop occurs, and all other factors (temp, food, etc) over a few weeks. Having some hard data might help? If you find that crickets are the culprit, there are many other prey choices that you can use.

Here is a list of commonly offered feeder prey: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html

Toronto has LOTS of options. You live in the best place in Canada to get choices Almost all the bugs we get in BC are shipped here from Ont.
But if you cant find anything local, try online:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/171-where-buy-feeders-online.html

Do you think the reason he isn't eating is because he cannot see the feeders? Or is he focusing fine, then shooting and missing?

 

[lancaster0861]

I wouldn't think it would be the lights but everyone on here seems to do really well and have no problems withe linear tube lights. May or may not help. I think its been said already but a lowest temp of 70 is perfect at night. You could probably stop using any light/heat at night. Maybe look into your gutload, the blog on gutloading given has become one of the most important text I think I could have come upon helping me keep a happy and healthy chameleon. I keep it simple. Just do what works for everyone else and u you are relatively good to go from their as it helps avoid many problems down the road.