Captive bred Senegals caught breeding

[ISA my Veiled]

Why was everyone questioning you? I think they look good, like Ulrich said the guy looked like he was partying but hey, I think you take good care of your chameleons and don't let anyone discourage you! Thank you for the pictures they are interesting. I don't breed (yet) myself so Its nice to get visuals of what to look for and see it first hand even through a picture. Thank you for sharing!! and Yes trillian the "shagging" colors are pretty cool lol

 

[Trillian]

Isa, I think people assume that all Senegals are WC and will have a smorgasbord of health complications. It's the first thing that comes to my mind when I see that someone has a Senegal. Which is why I'm so excited to have a few board members determined to breed these beautiful beasts!

 

[Trillian]

Here's a WC Senegal with fatal health complications.

 

[ISA my Veiled]

Isa, I think people assume that all Senegals are WC and will have a smorgasbord of health complications. It's the first thing that comes to my mind when I see that someone has a Senegal. Which is why I'm so excited to have a few board members determined to breed these beautiful beasts!

are they more common in captivity as being WC? I personally didn't know(i f they are) a commonly WC species of chameleon. Thats interesting, makes me want to do more research lol

 

[Trillian]

are they more common in captivity as being WC? I personally didn't know(i f they are) a commonly WC species of chameleon. Thats interesting, makes me want to do more research lol

I would say that it's probably harder to buy a CBB Senegal than a Parsonii! I have never seen anything other than WC at shows or online, the few that people say were CB usually turn out to be mislabelled or just misinformed. They are ridiculously easy and cheap to import, so very few people bother breeding them. They suffer enormous fatality rates in transit though, but they are so cheap, that is factored in. I forget the actual rates, but for every WC Senegal that arrives alive at the point of sale, something like 30ish died in transit. I think someone said they can be imported for something like $2 each, maybe less, and sold in for whatever profit.

 

[ISA my Veiled]

I would say that it's probably harder to buy a CBB Senegal than a Parsonii! I have never seen anything other than WC at shows or online, the few that people say were CB usually turn out to be mislabelled or just misinformed. They are ridiculously easy and cheap to import, so very few people bother breeding them. They suffer enormous fatality rates in transit though, but they are so cheap, that is factored in. I forget the actual rates, but for every WC Senegal that arrives alive at the point of sale, something like 30ish died in transit. I think someone said they can be imported for something like $2 each, maybe less, and sold in for whatever profit.

WOW harder than a Parsonii! That is nuts lol and yeah I read something similar to what you said about them being imported, very sad, some breeder needs to establish a good line of Senegal Chameleons to reduce that because its not fair to the animals at all. I mean 1-30...you gotta be kidding me.

 

[Trillian]

I may be exaggerating, but the numbers are around there somewhere. This is the internet, someone will be along to correct me any minute...

My first 3 chameleons were WC that I thought I was rescuing, but it didn't end well.

But that's why people automatically assume that any Senegal is WC!

 

[ISA my Veiled]

I know lol its like someone is looking over your shoulder every second. Yeah well thank you for filling me in, I've done most of my research with Chameleons on Panthers and Veiled so I have not a lot of knowledge on Senegals.

 

[DanSB]

I know lol its like someone is looking over your shoulder every second. Yeah well thank you for filling me in, I've done most of my research with Chameleons on Panthers and Veiled so I have not a lot of knowledge on Senegals.

Read the link I posted earlier in the thread I think it is the only good article on Senegals in the English language in existence, which is sad because they are one of the most commonly imported as Trillian said.

The dull greens and browns we normally see pictures of aren't typical of a healthy Senegal. They are very expressive yet subtle with their coloration with baby blues, yellows, oranges, and pinks flashing through depending on moods, plus their angry mottling with blacks, browns and dark greens also looks really cool.

Beyond their subtle coloration they also have fantastic personalities being generally very tame and acrobatic. Add to all this they are very tolerant of certain husbandry errors and as long as their parasite load is managed can tolerate swings in temperature and humidity that would leave most chameleons dead. Of course you eventually will need to fix your husbandry or they will succumb but they give you much more warning than most.

I know when mine wasn't given enough water he will turn black and just sit there... give him a good misting his colors go back and he wanders around happy.

Either way I would say a healthy captive bred should be at least as valuable as a Veiled, probably more because they are much less common in a healthy cb state.

 

[ISA my Veiled]

Read the link I posted earlier in the thread I think it is the only good article on Senegals in the English language in existence, which is sad because they are one of the most commonly imported as Trillian said.

The dull greens and browns we normally see pictures of aren't typical of a healthy Senegal. They are very expressive yet subtle with their coloration with baby blues, yellows, oranges, and pinks flashing through depending on moods, plus their angry mottling with blacks, browns and dark greens also looks really cool.

Beyond their subtle coloration they also have fantastic personalities being generally very tame and acrobatic. Add to all this they are very tolerant of certain husbandry errors and as long as their parasite load is managed can tolerate swings in temperature and humidity that would leave most chameleons dead. Of course you eventually will need to fix your husbandry or they will succumb but they give you much more warning than most.

I know when mine wasn't given enough water he will turn black and just sit there... give him a good misting his colors go back and he wanders around happy.

Either way I would say a healthy captive bred should be at least as valuable as a Veiled, probably more because they are much less common in a healthy cb state.

I Will definitely take a look at that article! They are very cool looking chameleons to me at least.

 

[bluewuta]

You will have a market here! Many people would rather pay much much more for a healthy CB over a sickly WC. You've done an amazing job getting the originals healthy enough to lay, and raising babies to breeding age is awesome! Senegals have so many wonderful qualities to recommend them over even Panthers or Veileds, you will have no trouble finding homes.

And I can't be the only one in love with the shagging colours of the male! He looks like an orchid! Beautiful!

Thank you. I agree I think they have a bad name just because so many have had to deal with WCs and there problems.

 

[bluewuta]

Why was everyone questioning you? I think they look good, like Ulrich said the guy looked like he was partying but hey, I think you take good care of your chameleons and don't let anyone discourage you! Thank you for the pictures they are interesting. I don't breed (yet) myself so Its nice to get visuals of what to look for and see it first hand even through a picture. Thank you for sharing!! and Yes trillian the "shagging" colors are pretty cool lol

I think that it is that a lot of people dont understand the Senegal and just assume when someone says they have some or have bred them they cant comprehend they dont have issues. I will admit after 20 years of chameleons I am pleasantly surprised that my Senegals are doing so well and breeding.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Great job acclimating those guys/gals. Thats truly the key to successful breeding when dealing with wc's. If you can get em past that first 6 mos. and get them to accept caged life you've won about 80% of the battle to breeding success. Keep up the good work and dont let the newbs with no real breeding knowledge get you down they look fine.

 

[bluewuta]

Great job acclimating those guys/gals. Thats truly the key to successful breeding when dealing with wc's. If you can get em past that first 6 mos. and get them to accept caged life you've won about 80% of the battle to breeding success. Keep up the good work and dont let the newbs with no real breeding knowledge get you down they look fine.

Thank a lot. I dont think they can get me down to excited here lol. A new project with success always makes you have more drive.

 

[Cainschams]

super job!! Congrats!!

 

[Dooley1]

They look good! Great job.

Kevin

 

[PappaRONzi]

Really cool to see captive bred Senegal's. I love them but have always stayed away because they are always low quality wild caught ones that I see. I really hope you can start a new trend here. Best of luck. Love to see the babies.

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

What temperature do you incubate them at and for how long?

Plus, I've never seen an aggresive Senegal. All the ones I've seen have been the most docile chameleons ever, and Karma is included. I don't think I could take a Senegal seriously if it tried to be scary, I'd just laugh at it. Even Bobo I rarely get a smudge of anger out of, I guess I got lucky.

 

[bluewuta]

What temperature do you incubate them at and for how long?

Plus, I've never seen an aggresive Senegal. All the ones I've seen have been the most docile chameleons ever, and Karma is included. I don't think I could take a Senegal seriously if it tried to be scary, I'd just laugh at it. Even Bobo I rarely get a smudge of anger out of, I guess I got lucky.

I really meant aggression towards breeding. The males I have dont take a no from the ladies. I incubated them at 78 degrees and it took about 7 months but it was a range of about two weeks between first and last if i remember right.

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

I really meant aggression towards breeding. The males I have dont take a no from the ladies. I incubated them at 78 degrees and it took about 7 months but it was a range of about two weeks between first and last if i remember right.

Do you wait until the female shows no aggresion to the male? Or did you just let him not take a no?