Can you cross breed mountain species?

brownie64

Avid Member
Hey guys was going to get another Jackson's male to replace the one I lost recently, but now I'm thinking about a Werner's Chameleon. Is the care for them the same as a Jackson's, or is it more difficult? And this may sound stupid if so excuse my stupidity, but can they mate with Jackson's? Just curious really I don't think I'll ever intentionally breed any live bearing species again. Any info on this would be appreciated. :)

Was sold one of these Werner's once as a Jackson's years ago, but it only lived for about a year, and didn't grow much at all. I figure now that I know more about mountain species. I think it was the fact that I treating him the same as my veiled could have been the reason for his early demise. Or is it just that they are extremely hard to keep?
 
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Motherlode Chameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
There has been minimal documentation of chameleon species hybridizing. Meaning if your Trioceros jacksonii xantholophus (pictured in your avatar) and Trioceros werneri hybridized I would be extremely surprised. Even then though I would not put the two together.

Yeah your Jacksons (a cool humid weather species) that only lived for a year because of being kept with conditions similar to what is appropriate for a Veiled (a hot dry climate species) most probably cause an early demises of your chameleon.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 

brownie64

Avid Member
There has been minimal documentation of chameleon species hybridizing. Meaning if your Trioceros jacksonii xantholophus (pictured in your avatar) and Trioceros werneri hybridized I would be extremely surprised. Even then though I would not put the two together.

Yeah your Jacksons (a cool humid weather species) that only lived for a year because of being kept with conditions similar to what is appropriate for a Veiled (a hot dry climate species) most probably cause an early demises of your chameleon.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Don't worry I have no intention of putting them together just was curious if it were possible. I'm really more concerned about how easy or hard their care is, from what research I have done the seam very similar to my Jackson's. So would you say they are about the same as far as care?
 

DekuScrub

Avid Member
I would say hybridization is extremely unlikely. I would say not at all, except for the fact that there was one person to breed a senegal with a veiled a while back....wonder how those turned out. I kept werneri for maybe a year at one point. They were sold to me as a pair, tried breeding them to no avail. then i separated them and they seemed stressed. Put em back together still wouldnt mate. I gave up and sold em, but theyre super cute. Oh, and more to the point i kept them similar to a jackson's tried to keep it a bit on the cooler side though. (which is kind of tough in a room full of panthers and veileds.) Then again i'm no expert. Like i said i only had mine for about year. Where are you seeing werneri for sale btw?
 

leedragon

Avid Member
better question is, why would you anyone cross breed, what does the chameleon gain with this, and it is done for the chameleon or for ones own pleasure
 

RyU

New Member
better question is, why would you anyone cross breed, what does the chameleon gain with this, and it is done for the chameleon or for ones own pleasure
What does the chameleon gain from living in a cage in your living room?
 

johnnyev

New Member
better question is, why would you anyone cross breed, what does the chameleon gain with this, and it is done for the chameleon or for ones own pleasure
Agreed!!! And in the case of pardalis, the answer is simply the latter. I personally am against the cross breeding even of different locales, let alone species/sub sp. Something much more beautiful about a pure specimen in my eyes.
 

brownie64

Avid Member
I would say hybridization is extremely unlikely. I would say not at all, except for the fact that there was one person to breed a senegal with a veiled a while back....wonder how those turned out. I kept werneri for maybe a year at one point. They were sold to me as a pair, tried breeding them to no avail. then i separated them and they seemed stressed. Put em back together still wouldnt mate. I gave up and sold em, but theyre super cute. Oh, and more to the point i kept them similar to a jackson's tried to keep it a bit on the cooler side though. (which is kind of tough in a room full of panthers and veileds.) Then again i'm no expert. Like i said i only had mine for about year. Where are you seeing werneri for sale btw?
BackwaterReptiles.com for 69.99 + shipping. I haven't done my research on there quality though just ran across them while browsing. I'll probably stay with the Jackson's just think these guys look a little cooler.
 

RyU

New Member
Mmm! Good point, never really thought of it like that.
Awesome statement worth considering separate of this post!!!;)

CHEERS!

Nick
It's easy to point fingers at others that do not share your opinion. Personally, I can understand that people don't like to cross even F. pardalis, and that's their opinion, but I find it upsetting when they blame people for wanting to try something new within the hobby. I personally would look at it as an accomplishment if someone had managed to cross a montane species of chams.

How many dogs and cats are crossed? How many of those species are actually found in the wild? Do they still make excellent pets? Sure, sometimes even better. A good example is the Betta fish. Most of those color lines in the hobby are entirely man created by inbreeding crossing. Look at how beautiful they are compared to the wild ones.
 

Chase

Avid Member
It's easy to point fingers at others that do not share your opinion. Personally, I can understand that people don't like to cross even F. pardalis, and that's their opinion, but I find it upsetting when they blame people for wanting to try something new within the hobby. I personally would look at it as an accomplishment if someone had managed to cross a montane species of chams.

How many dogs and cats are crossed? How many of those species are actually found in the wild? Do they still make excellent pets? Sure, sometimes even better. A good example is the Betta fish. Most of those color lines in the hobby are entirely man created by inbreeding crossing. Look at how beautiful they are compared to the wild ones.
The only difference is that those are the same species. I agree with the argument of it is not evil or whatever to make hybrids between locales in pardalis, for example. But, like said before, what is there to gain by breeding a jacksonii to a werneri?

Chase
 

RyU

New Member
The only difference is that those are the same species. I agree with the argument of it is not evil or whatever to make hybrids between locales in pardalis, for example. But, like said before, what is there to gain by breeding a jacksonii to a werneri?

Chase
F. Pardalis is the same too...but people cry hell when they're "crossed" Who knows what the actual gain could possibly be until its been tried? Maybe a cross that looks nicer? Just because we don't know what we can find on an asteroid doesn't mean we should not explore it... I want to add that I personally would not try this because I'm pretty sure it just cannot be done.
 

Jay Sick

Established Member
The guy that crossed what was said before to be a "senegal" and a veiled what it actually was was a graceful and a veiled. only had 3 survive in the long term. He was also selling them for like 1000 a piece online lol. He did not have the experience needed to care for such a fragile project. First i would make sure both were wc so the lines and genetics are strong. Second i would make sure your supplementation and nutrition is spot on. It is not impossible to cross close species especially one in the same genius like veiled graceful and so on. There is speculation about carpets being crossed with panther and panthers being crossed with ouslouats but the people doing so did not have the experience as far as i have been told to achieve the goal of successful cross breeding.


I strongly believe if done right it can happen and i also believe that the offspring should be sent to zoos and or keepers who sign contracts and promise not to try to breed them. Yes it would be amazing to see but not in the wrong hands I have also heard of montaine crossing in the wild but that i believe was proven false. The people to ask would be Chris Anderson and Dr O.
 

CarlC

Established Member
The only real difference in care is werneri prefer cooler temperatures. Humidity needs to stay on the higher side. They do not like being wet.

Carl
 

Trace

Captain Awesome
Lets not forget that we have not even perfected keeping Trioceros werneri longterm as of yet, so why even bother to attempt cross-breeds when we should be concentrating on establishing them properly in captivity in the first place.
 

Chase

Avid Member
F. Pardalis is the same too...but people cry hell when they're "crossed" Who knows what the actual gain could possibly be until its been tried? Maybe a cross that looks nicer? Just because we don't know what we can find on an asteroid doesn't mean we should not explore it... I want to add that I personally would not try this because I'm pretty sure it just cannot be done.
I'm aware they're the same.

I was insinuating the fact that why try to interbreed species when we haven't even perfect not only their breeding, nonetheless the care, as Trace said. I don't really see the point, as I said earlier

Chase
 

RyU

New Member
Lets not forget that we have not even perfected keeping Trioceros werneri longterm as of yet, so why even bother to attempt cross-breeds when we should be concentrating on establishing them properly in captivity in the first place.
I'm aware they're the same.

I was insinuating the fact that why try to interbreed species when we haven't even perfect not only their breeding, nonetheless the care, as Trace said. I don't really see the point, as I said earlier

Chase
I'm talking very generally about interbreeding in montane species. I mean, don't you think it'd be cool having a 3 horned montium or something of that sort?
 

Trace

Captain Awesome
I'm talking very generally about interbreeding in montane species. I mean, don't you think it'd be cool having a 3 horned montium or something of that sort?
My distaste for the finned species is well documented on this board so in my case it would be a resounding no! HAHA! :D
 
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