can Olive be growing a horn?

[little leaf]

I have a female Jackson - and that is about all the pet shop could tell me when they sold her to me I am not sure how old she really is- she is not a baby for sure- she sheds in "patches" like an adult - and is about 7" nose to vent- but it looks like she is starting to grow a horn or a horn bud - she was kept in a stupid bird cage at the store- and rubbed her face badly - you can see the marks in the pic on my post about her eyes - but the pic does not show it well, but she is getting a 'bump" on her nose - now that she is being fed well, could this be a small horn starting ? I could not really find much info on horn growth

 

[creno]

Horn !

Hi Yes that little bump is a little horn, I have 3 Females and one of my females has 3 tiny little horns, one on her nose and 2 above her eyes. Your chameleon's eye looks swollen and red, maybe an eye infection ? You might want her to go to the vet for that. Pet shops are not the most knowledgeable when it comes to Chameleon's. Is she Eating Drinking ?

 

[Solid Snake]

Your chameleon looks to be growing ocular horns as well.

The swelling in the eyes and chest is called edema, which could be caused by many things.

 

[Solid Snake]

The red coloration around the eyes is showing because they are swollen, they should be just as green as the rest of her.

Pre-Edema:

Edema:

Almost edema free:

Edema free:

Can you fill out the help form?

 

[laurie]

Wow Cheryl, scare the forum to death. You could have told everyone she was just doing eye maintenance, and that she does have eyes that are a tad different. To all of you who were being helpful, she does have a bit of edema under her chin, but we are dealing with that.

Otherwise she is healthy except for her owner who panics almost daily. This is the first healthy cham Cheryl has had. The other two were both rescues that were so far gone there was no way to save them. You guys will just need to help me ease Cheryl into owning a healthy cham.

 

[Solid Snake]

Im not saying the animal is in bad shape, just trying to explain what is going on. I Saw comments in her other thread about how red the eyes were, and it seemed that people thought that was just natural, and neat.

Its not.

Its swelling caused by fluid retention. The fact that its showing in the chest and not just in the eyes should be noted. If it was just an eye infection, then just the eye would swell. The fluid build up can increase risk of infection spreading, but none of this means that there is actually any infection.

This happens during child bearing for instance, and is normal to some extent. After Stella passed her slugs, the edema subsided rapidly. She was tested for infection while the edema was present, and showed positive for a minor infection, which she was treated for, but the edema did not subside until after the slugs had been passed.

I saw in the other thread that this animal looks gravid herself, so that may be the cause. Im really not the most experienced with it though.

To clarify, the animal may be "healthy", but its body is not in perfect homeostasis. The edema may be a result of the bodies attempt to return to homeostasis, but it is a sure sign its not there, and homeostasis is the goal, always.

I recommend going over everything to ensure its not a nutritional imbalance that could be rectified, other words, a problem on Cheryl's end. (not necessarily a problem you created Cheryl, but no matter what, its your problem now )

Over/under supplementation could be a cause, or lack of/an overabundance in certain vitamins/minerals/nutrients.

These are easy things to go over and fix, so it wont hurt to do so.
You may already be doing so, I dont know, just didnt see anyone else offering this information up.

 

[ChameleonMom]

No matter what problems Olive is having I am certain you will get things fixed up and she will go on to grow that adorable little horn and be a happy, healthy little Jackson's! Keep up the great work Cheryl!

 

[lovepicasso]

Like Lisa said, you will get this under control and that beautiful little girl will be just fine, I know you will do everything that is possible.

 

[little leaf]

yes, I know there is some issues with her still- Lauri is helping me get her suplmation balanced - at the shop ALL the crix were in a cup totally coved in D3 in the pic, she is doing her eye mant/ normally they are not swollen when she is just hanging out on her vine - I am at work, but I will post a pic of her at rest- so you can see her eyes as she is normally - but YIKE- I really am trying to do right by her- and her swelling has gotten much better - as soon as I get a day off- ( I work 6 days a week, 6- 12 hrs a day ) with only Sunday off - I would like to get her in for her check up / poopy test and to see if she does infact have babies in her ( I kinda dont think so , as she is not as fat as before - and the pic of her looking so big, I had just got her, and she was so thirsty, she sucked even on the damp leaves - she drank so much )

but yes, I know she still have some issues to overcome- but we are working on them =))
thanks for all the help on her guys =)

 

[deadhd5]

Solid Snake - I always pay special attention to your posts as they are always filled with facts and first hand knowledge. That being said, I am not sure your diagnosis of the "eye shadow" being from an infection is correct, based on the other photos I have seen of this cham. Check out thise one, which clearly shows the "eye shadow" is in the typical chameleon spiral pattern:

I could be wrong, but that looks like natural coloration and not an infected eye.

 

[Solid Snake]

Solid Snake - I always pay special attention to your posts as they are always filled with facts and first hand knowledge. That being said, I am not sure your diagnosis of the "eye shadow" being from an infection is correct, based on the other photos I have seen of this cham. Check out thise one, which clearly shows the "eye shadow" is in the typical chameleon spiral pattern:

I could be wrong, but that looks like natural coloration and not an infected eye.

You are absolutely correct.

They do tend to go through a "red-phase" when they are young, and that is completely normal.

First, to clarify, I never diagnosed the chameleon with anything. I tried to stress that the OP's chameleon doesnt necessarily have infection, just that infection can be an even more dangerous thing with that much fluid retention. Also the fact that the edema is readily noticeable in the full body of the animal should be noted, which indicates that the eye swelling isnt an isolated occurance. If it was, it would point to a possible infection if say, just one eye, or both eyes were effected.

The red-phase look of the eye is noticeably different than the op's animal, and the animal I posted. The latter both have noticeably puffy eyes, and the flesh has been stretched to the point the green barring shown in the animal you posted is all but unnoticeable.

Maybe I should not have focused on just the red coloration of the tissue, thank you for pointing this out.

Here is a pic of the same animal I posted earlier in her life, with red phase coloration in the eyes, and body, with no ascertainable health issues.

I just immediately noticed the look of the eyes, as I had a struggle to find out what was causing it, and went through hell trying to figure out how to fix it.

Again, you are right, red coloration of the eye turrets on a young jackson can be perfectly normal. However, in my opinion, the OP's animals eyes would be at least almost totally green, if no edema was present. As has been my experience.

Also, the fact that the OP's chameleon has edema at this point in time is just that.

Good looking out...

 

[deadhd5]

Thanks for the explanation Solid Snake, it has definitely added to my understanding of what variables to consider when offering advice on a potential eye condition. Also, it is important to know that the risk associated with edema plus an infection is greater.

The picture I posted is actually a picture of the OP's chameleon posted previously (when I commented that the turrets were cool, haha). She is not showing much if any edema in this pic, but as you stated, the eye does look different than the pics in this thread, which is a result of swelling.

Cheryl has just been through a lot with the loss of Gail, I am really hoping for a long happy life for this girl

 

[Solid Snake]

Cheryl has just been through a lot with the loss of Gail, I am really hoping for a long happy life for this girl

Me too, I only say things to try and be helpful, I wish the best for these animals and their keepers, it can be stressful, and alot of work.

 

[dlegare]

Solid Snake - I always pay special attention to your posts as they are always filled with facts and first hand knowledge. That being said, I am not sure your diagnosis of the "eye shadow" being from an infection is correct, based on the other photos I have seen of this cham. Check out thise one, which clearly shows the "eye shadow" is in the typical chameleon spiral pattern:

I could be wrong, but that looks like natural coloration and not an infected eye.

I'm leaning towards that being a very interesting coloration. Maybe a trip to the vet is in order just to be sure. Can't be too careful.

 

[Solid Snake]

I'm leaning towards that being a very interesting coloration. Maybe a trip to the vet is in order just to be sure. Can't be too careful.

The coloration itself is quite normal.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/red-phase-jacksonii-57562/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/jacksonii-xantholupus-red-60653/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/male-female-jackson-71568/

The severity of the swelling is not.

 

[Calypso]

That's pretty cool. I didn't know that was possible till now. Thanks!

 

[Cainschams]

Glad to hear you are trying to fix up the problems. Hearing what the pet shop was doing Id bet over supplementation is definitely a factor. How are you trying to cure this?

Did she break her leg or have MBD at some point. The one pic her leg looks weird but could just be how she has it positioned.

Hope all goes well with her.

 

[little leaf]

Glad to hear you are trying to fix up the problems. Hearing what the pet shop was doing Id bet over supplementation is definitely a factor. How are you trying to cure this?

Did she break her leg or have MBD at some point. The one pic her leg looks weird but could just be how she has it positioned.

Hope all goes well with her.

I am feeding very gut loaded crix, but have not added any vit/or d3 back to her diet yet- we are going 1 crix at a time on the cal. until she has worked it out of her system - and lots of water - her leg- ugh- she did that the first night I got her- the next day it was fine- the vet said to watch it, but it has never been an issue again - THANK GOD- that was scary

 

[little leaf]

Me too, I only say things to try and be helpful, I wish the best for these animals and their keepers, it can be stressful, and alot of work.

SS - please if you ( or anyone) ever see anything odd let me know - I really appreciate any and all help - I am still learning and only want what is best for her- after the loss of my last little girl Gail, I almost decided I did not deserve to own a cham- it just broke my heart to lose her - but she came to me very ill - Olive is my first one who did not come to me on death door- but I also knew if I did not get her soon, she would also fall into bad health w/ the care she was getting ( or NOT getting )
those links are GREAT !! THANK YOU I had never heard of "phase red" - kinda neat

here is her eye right now- do you think it looks ok guys ?? in the other pic, she was doing her eye maint/ she really gets carried away with it - lol if I did not know what she was doing, I would think her eyes were going to pop off- it still kinda freaks me out-
Laurie has be very helpful in mentoring me on her care ( poor woman- I call her almost daily - lol )
it also makes it very hard because I do not know if she is gravid - or even her age - any idea on how old she may be ?? I have no history on her at all - so it makes everything harder -

 

[little leaf]

Otherwise she is healthy except for her owner who panics almost daily. This is the first healthy cham Cheryl has had. The other two were both rescues that were so far gone there was no way to save them. You guys will just need to help me ease Cheryl into owning a healthy cham.

LOL - hey, I am down to DAILY- used to be hourly