can i feed them dead crickets?

[dakota18]

i will hopefully own a cham soon, and i was wondering if i could feed them dead dried crickets instead of live ones, because it would be easier and i found a 5lb bag of dead dried crickets on chewy .com. also if i did feed them dead bugs, would i still have to dust them with calcium powder ?

 

[Gingero]

Nope. Only live bugs for chameleons because they are attracted to the movement of the bugs.

 

[MissSkittles]

i will hopefully own a cham soon, and i was wondering if i could feed them dead dried crickets instead of live ones, because it would be easier and i found a 5lb bag of dead dried crickets on chewy .com. also if i did feed them dead bugs, would i still have to dust them with calcium powder ?

Chameleons will only eat live bugs. However, there are many more suitable for them than just crickets and it is best to give them a variety. Attaching a couple of things for you which may help. If you’re looking for convenience and to save some money, I would suggest starting a colony of either dubia or discoid roaches. Yes, I know....ewwww! Neither of these varieties fly or climb slick surfaces and are actually much easier, cleaner and quieter than crickets.
For great info on preparing for and keeping a cham, check out the resources here and/or head on over tohttps://chameleonacademy.com/

 

[nightanole]

the dried crickets and meal worms are for feeding outdoor birds. At best you can mix them in salads for other reptiles like iggies and beardies.

 

[Gingero]

Just published this video on what bugs you can feed to a cham:

 

[dakota18]

okay thank you everyone, i have now looked into and learned how i will farm/keep my crickets, thank you !

 

[The Wild One]

Just go ahead and bench watch @Gingero’s series. I did that for my first time.

 

[cyberlocc]

Just published this video on what bugs you can feed to a cham:

BBFs or GBFs, or really any Blow Fly (Carrion Fly) are actually pretty healthy, much higher than 6/10, they have high protein, decent calcium, and most importantly! They are about the only feeder that we use that has Preformed Vit A. GBF/BBFs, are Carrion Flies, the Maggots before you get them, are raised on Rotting Decaying meat. This sounds gross, and thats why people dont try to breed them lol.

HOWEVER, Carrion flies, are shown to make up 20-30% of Wild Chams diets. They are a HUGE part of Wild Chameleon diets, and how Chams likely get their Vit A in the wild. As to gutloading the flies, they actually can be gutloaded, which BSFs cannot. The Flies in the wild, eat Nectar and rotting fruit, sweet things. They will do the same in Captivity, so Bee Pollen, with some water to make a syrup, will be consumed and is a great gut load. On the Contrary BSFs, have no moving mouth parts, they do not and cannot eat, only drink water.


I'm not sure why they are rarer in the Reptile hobby, and they kind of are, but that is because your looking in the wrong place. Its more than likely, because most reptiles cannot eat them. A bearded dragon or a Leo, cannot catch and consume a Bottle Fly, Chameleons can, Frogs can, Mantids can, and places that specialize in feeders for one of those 3, will have them. There is also the fact, that many are grossed out by the fact that Blow Fly, larvae are actual maggots. House Flys (of which Bottle flys are also frequently pests in your house) are also carrion flys. Their larvae, is the actual definition of Maggots, that feed on nasty rotting decaying meat. However aside from the specialty shops I mentioned, another great resource for them, is Bait Shops. People love fishing with BBF/GBF Spikes, and the flies, they are used for fly fishing. They are raised on rotting and decaying meat, but so is Josh's, thats the only way to raise them.


Most of the stuff, that is touted as a Chameleon feeder, is not even eaten in the wild. They eat Bees, Wasps, Beetles, and Flies, occasionally Hoppers, Snails, Sticks, Mantids (which eat flies, the only Mantid a panther would have access to is Ghosts and Gambits, AFAIK, both of which only eat bottle flies) Sticks, Katydids, ect. Never would a Chameleon in the wild, eat a Roach, or Hornworm, a Super, or a Silkworm. They are either not where chameleons are, or like roaches, they are ground dwelling nocturnal insects. Geckos eat roaches, not Chams.

As to whether, that matters IDK. However I do know, from that post recently that Nosy Bes, kept as captives, usually dont have the Yellow Lips, Brodys does and he feeds a ton of WC flying insects and thinks that is why. We would need testing, but Brody and Petr Nectas think that is why, if it is, it shows that something is missing. I am not saying we should limit feeders to what chams eat in the wild, just that detracting from natural foods while promoting unnatural ones, might be a bad idea.


Also, if you think about it (Because I just did lol, as checking my chams feeder cup) the entire invention of a feeder cup, is so that we could defy nature.

We use feeder cups, to feed worms, roaches, crickets, larvae, however in reality that issue is made by us. The insects that chams eat, dont stay on the ground, they dont hide. The hoppers they consume are not noctural like crickets, the flies fly, the bees fly, the beetles fly and climb. We have litteraly went out of our way, to defy nature.

 

[jamest0o0]

BBFs or GBFs, or really any Blow Fly (Carrion Fly) are actually pretty healthy, much higher than 6/10, they have high protein, decent calcium, and most importantly! They are about the only feeder that we use that has Preformed Vit A. GBF/BBFs, are Carrion Flies, the Maggots before you get them, are raised on Rotting Decaying meat. This sounds gross, and thats why people dont try to breed them lol.

HOWEVER, Carrion flies, are shown to make up 20-30% of Wild Chams diets. They are a HUGE part of Wild Chameleon diets, and how Chams likely get their Vit A in the wild. As to gutloading the flies, they actually can be gutloaded, which BSFs cannot. The Flies in the wild, eat Nectar and rotting fruit, sweet things. They will do the same in Captivity, so Bee Pollen, with some water to make a syrup, will be consumed and is a great gut load. On the Contrary BSFs, have no moving mouth parts, they do not and cannot eat, only drink water.


I'm not sure why they are rarer in the Reptile hobby, and they kind of are, but that is because your looking in the wrong place. Its more than likely, because most reptiles cannot eat them. A bearded dragon or a Leo, cannot catch and consume a Bottle Fly, Chameleons can, Frogs can, Mantids can, and places that specialize in feeders for one of those 3, will have them. There is also the fact, that many are grossed out by the fact that Blow Fly, larvae are actual maggots. House Flys (of which Bottle flys are also frequently pests in your house) are also carrion flys. Their larvae, is the actual definition of Maggots, that feed on nasty rotting decaying meat. However aside from the specialty shops I mentioned, another great resource for them, is Bait Shops. People love fishing with BBF/GBF Spikes, and the flies, they are used for fly fishing. They are raised on rotting and decaying meat, but so is Josh's, thats the only way to raise them.


Most of the stuff, that is touted as a Chameleon feeder, is not even eaten in the wild. They eat Bees, Wasps, Beetles, and Flies, occasionally Hoppers, Snails, Sticks, Mantids (which eat flies, the only Mantid a panther would have access to is Ghosts and Gambits, AFAIK, both of which only eat bottle flies) Sticks, Katydids, ect. Never would a Chameleon in the wild, eat a Roach, or Hornworm, a Super, or a Silkworm. They are either not where chameleons are, or like roaches, they are ground dwelling nocturnal insects. Geckos eat roaches, not Chams.

As to whether, that matters IDK. However I do know, from that post recently that Nosy Bes, kept as captives, usually dont have the Yellow Lips, Brodys does and he feeds a ton of WC flying insects and thinks that is why. We would need testing, but Brody and Petr Nectas think that is why, if it is, it shows that something is missing. I am not saying we should limit feeders to what chams eat in the wild, just that detracting from natural foods while promoting unnatural ones, might be a bad idea.

I agree and the preformed A would make sense, but do we know this is true? Is there any proof outside of maggots eat dead things? Not coming at you, I'm genuinely curious.

Also I do disagree on the yellow thing. My nosey be frequently showed bright yellow and he never had wild caught bugs. To me that doesn't make much sense. Coloration would come from genetics IMO

 

[cyberlocc]

I agree and the preformed A would make sense, but do we know this is true? Is there any proof outside of maggots eat dead things? Not coming at you, I'm genuinely curious.

Also I do disagree on the yellow thing. My nosey be frequently showed bright yellow and he never had wild caught bugs. To me that doesn't make much sense. Coloration would come from genetics IMO

Like I said, I have no idea, just saying that was brought up recently by them two. I dont keep Nosys, I really dont know.

Any proof of what? Of flies providing retinol? Ya flies need retinol to see, and they get it from eating rotting meat. They do not consume Cartenoids, so their is no other way for them to get retinol. All insects AFAIK need retinol to see, only really flies get retinol not carotenoid.

They also have all this going for them.

"Next time you end a housefly's life with a deft stroke of your swatter, think about just how nutritious these buzzing annoyances really are. Protein? There's almost 20 grams of it in a 100- gram serving (about one cup). Iron? Gram for gram, it has six times that of lean ground beef. Flies' levels of zinc, niacin and magnesium are all off the charts, blowing away all the other insects studied — plus the salmon, chicken and beef that researchers compared it to! Zinc strengthens the immune system and helps the body make proteins and DNA. Niacin, a.k.a. vitamin B-3, helps the body convert carbohydrates into glucose, which the body uses to produce energy. Magnesium has been shown to ward off depression, panic attacks and anxiety."

https://www.eatthis.com/what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-eat-bugs/

As you can see from the Article, and there is many others, they want humans to consume Carrion Flies as well.


Good one to point out there, is Magnesium, Arcadias new supplment line, has been advertising that as well. Saying we have been lacking in magnesium for reptiles for awhile. Thats because the insect that Chameleons eat in Nature, that we are not feeding is the source of that very magnesium.

Look at the insect charts, where we see feeder nutrition, and they say "Look at the C, Look at the protein" acting like those are the only things that matters, when its not. Just like the article said about the Flies for humans, those things have more Zinc, Mag, and Niacin then even the Meat humans consume.

 

[jamest0o0]

Like I said, I have no idea, just saying that was brought up recently by them two. I dont keep Nosys, I really dont know.

Any proof of what? Of flies providing retinol? Ya flies need retinol to see, and they get it from eating rotting meat. They do not consume Cartenoids, so their is no other way for them to get retinol. All insects AFAIK need retinol to see, only really flies get retinol not carotenoid.

They also have all this going for them.

"Next time you end a housefly's life with a deft stroke of your swatter, think about just how nutritious these buzzing annoyances really are. Protein? There's almost 20 grams of it in a 100- gram serving (about one cup). Iron? Gram for gram, it has six times that of lean ground beef. Flies' levels of zinc, niacin and magnesium are all off the charts, blowing away all the other insects studied — plus the salmon, chicken and beef that researchers compared it to! Zinc strengthens the immune system and helps the body make proteins and DNA. Niacin, a.k.a. vitamin B-3, helps the body convert carbohydrates into glucose, which the body uses to produce energy. Magnesium has been shown to ward off depression, panic attacks and anxiety."

https://www.eatthis.com/what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-eat-bugs/

As you can see from the Article, and there is many others, they want humans to consume Carrion Flies as well.


Good one to point out there, is Magnesium, Arcadias new supplment line, has been advertising that as well. Saying we have been lacking in magnesium for reptiles for awhile. Thats because the insect that Chameleons eat in Nature, that we are not feeding is the source of that very magnesium.

Look at the insect charts, where we see feeder nutrition, and they say "Look at the C, Look at the protein" acting like those are the only things that matters, when its not. Just like the article said about the Flies for humans, those things have more Zinc, Mag, and Niacin then even the Meat humans consume.

I was actually going to come back and say I guess some animals do show different coloration based off their diets. In this case I just felt a little more certain it was genetic because of my nosey be with tons of yellow. Either way, I have no idea either lol.

I wasn't doubting the flies at all, I'm all about feeding the bottleflies and have been doing so whenever possible, gutloaded on a bee pollen mixture with a bunch of other stuff. I wasn't sure if we knew that they carried retinol or not, so why do they need it for their eyes and other flying insects don't? Or do they all? I tried looking it up quick, but couldn't find much(I had like 2 minutes to look though lol).

To be fair with nutrition, cockroaches(maybe I'm a little biased) make one of the most nutrient dense substances known(cockroach milk lol). And many other insects have amazing health benefits.

 

[cyberlocc]

I was actually going to come back and say I guess some animals do show different coloration based off their diets. In this case I just felt a little more certain it was genetic because of my nosey be with tons of yellow. Either way, I have no idea either lol.

I wasn't doubting the flies at all, I'm all about feeding the bottleflies and have been doing so whenever possible, gutloaded on a bee pollen mixture with a bunch of other stuff. I wasn't sure if we knew that they carried retinol or not, so why do they need it for their eyes and other flying insects don't? Or do they all? I tried looking it up quick, but couldn't find much(I had like 2 minutes to look though lol).

To be fair with nutrition, cockroaches(maybe I'm a little biased) make one of the most nutrient dense substances known(cockroach milk lol). And many other insects have amazing health benefits.

Ya all insects need retinol to see, so do we. The difference is, they get cartenoids to make said retinol, so do we. Carrion Flies dont, not as larvae anyway.

I'm not picking on roaches, I like roaches too, and fully intend to keep roaches as a feeder, however not for panthers. I am going to try, as a personal project to move to a more natural diet, and see if it makes any difference.

It might not, and thats fine. I am doing so, in an effort to remove unnatural elements from my care, personally. By that I dont even really mean the roaches, as much as I mean the "Feeder Cup" I want that gone. Flies dont need a cup, Grasshoppers (there is now 2 or 3 legal to sell species) dont need a feeder cup, Sticks, Mantids, Beetles (If I can find the right beetle) do not need cups.

The only reason we have the cups, is we are trying to feed insects that Chameleons wouldn't consume. My geckos would eat roaches in the wild, so I will keep feeding them roaches, they dont need a cup. They are also nocturnal, come out when the roaches do, and actively look under the leaf litter for said roaches. They are designed to eat the roaches, Chameleons are designed to eat flies.

To be clear I'm not trying to give Ill to roaches, simply saying what I want to do, I currently feed mostly roaches, however its something I want to move away from to nix the cup. Even then, I will likely throw a couple of roaches into the Viv (Adult Males, so no breeding) Halloween hissers, they should survive fine, and if the day comes they get eaten, they get eaten. There was roaches on the wild feeder lists, but like 1 or 2, out of 1000s of insects. If they dont get eaten, they can play CUC for their entire (Long for Halloween hissers) life span.

Kind of the same plan, when I get and breed some Ghost Mantids, I will be releasing some of them into the viv. If they get eaten, they get eaten, if not they are Tank mates till death.


Also kind of wanted to do it with Frogs, not sure if the Cham would eat them, if there is no ill effect if he did though, I may consider it, for a "Mixed Species" show tank, maybe throw in a Leaf Tail too.

Before I get flamed for saying that, or giving ideas to noobs. I would be using species, that are all found in the same native range, they live together in the wild, and it would be monitored intensely (except the bugs) and they would all have separate cages to go too if needed.

 

[Gingero]

BBFs or GBFs, or really any Blow Fly (Carrion Fly) are actually pretty healthy, much higher than 6/10, they have high protein, decent calcium, and most importantly! They are about the only feeder that we use that has Preformed Vit A. GBF/BBFs, are Carrion Flies, the Maggots before you get them, are raised on Rotting Decaying meat. This sounds gross, and thats why people dont try to breed them lol.

HOWEVER, Carrion flies, are shown to make up 20-30% of Wild Chams diets. They are a HUGE part of Wild Chameleon diets, and how Chams likely get their Vit A in the wild. As to gutloading the flies, they actually can be gutloaded, which BSFs cannot. The Flies in the wild, eat Nectar and rotting fruit, sweet things. They will do the same in Captivity, so Bee Pollen, with some water to make a syrup, will be consumed and is a great gut load. On the Contrary BSFs, have no moving mouth parts, they do not and cannot eat, only drink water.


I'm not sure why they are rarer in the Reptile hobby, and they kind of are, but that is because your looking in the wrong place. Its more than likely, because most reptiles cannot eat them. A bearded dragon or a Leo, cannot catch and consume a Bottle Fly, Chameleons can, Frogs can, Mantids can, and places that specialize in feeders for one of those 3, will have them. There is also the fact, that many are grossed out by the fact that Blow Fly, larvae are actual maggots. House Flys (of which Bottle flys are also frequently pests in your house) are also carrion flys. Their larvae, is the actual definition of Maggots, that feed on nasty rotting decaying meat. However aside from the specialty shops I mentioned, another great resource for them, is Bait Shops. People love fishing with BBF/GBF Spikes, and the flies, they are used for fly fishing. They are raised on rotting and decaying meat, but so is Josh's, thats the only way to raise them.


Most of the stuff, that is touted as a Chameleon feeder, is not even eaten in the wild. They eat Bees, Wasps, Beetles, and Flies, occasionally Hoppers, Snails, Sticks, Mantids (which eat flies, the only Mantid a panther would have access to is Ghosts and Gambits, AFAIK, both of which only eat bottle flies) Sticks, Katydids, ect. Never would a Chameleon in the wild, eat a Roach, or Hornworm, a Super, or a Silkworm. They are either not where chameleons are, or like roaches, they are ground dwelling nocturnal insects. Geckos eat roaches, not Chams.

As to whether, that matters IDK. However I do know, from that post recently that Nosy Bes, kept as captives, usually dont have the Yellow Lips, Brodys does and he feeds a ton of WC flying insects and thinks that is why. We would need testing, but Brody and Petr Nectas think that is why, if it is, it shows that something is missing. I am not saying we should limit feeders to what chams eat in the wild, just that detracting from natural foods while promoting unnatural ones, might be a bad idea.


Also, if you think about it (Because I just did lol, as checking my chams feeder cup) the entire invention of a feeder cup, is so that we could defy nature.

We use feeder cups, to feed worms, roaches, crickets, larvae, however in reality that issue is made by us. The insects that chams eat, dont stay on the ground, they dont hide. The hoppers they consume are not noctural like crickets, the flies fly, the bees fly, the beetles fly and climb. We have litteraly went out of our way, to defy nature.

THANK YOU for this. Love, love, this additional info and that there is so much to learn in this hobby. Sounds like I need to make a video just on BBFs and flying feeders in general.