Calumma parsonii (Orange Eye)

. . . .ok

If I was a fresh junior member and posted pics of parsoni would I get shot down? I see it happening to alot of junior members that are actualy very experienced and know what they are doing.
And when a senior member thats been around for 2+ years posts pics of something very rare no questions are answered everyone just comments how beautiful it is.

Fell free to look around if Im right
 
Ryan Jarosek said:
I think it is fair that you ask that. These animals were not brought in by us or for us. We have taken them on because of some unfortuante events that have led to us aquiring them IMO in the best interest of the animals. With out them finding their way to the homes they are in now they did not have much of a chance at survival. I never intended on keeping Parsonii but will sure as hell try my best to make sure ones that are here are sucesfull. The importer was not sucessful and will probably not try this again. He lost and unfortuitly the parsonii almost did too.

What would you have done in that situation?
Click to expand...

OK I understand your situation better now. I just got agrivated because of things that happend before, best of luck with them anyway. And the least you can do is try a breeding program with everyone who is willing to do it so that the smuggling can really stop.
 
chameleonneeds said:
If I was a fresh junior member and posted pics of parsoni would I get shot down? I see it happening to alot of junior members that are actualy very experienced and know what they are doing.
Click to expand...

Be realistic, though. How often do you think Parson's get adopted versus purchased? Don't you think it's a fair assumption to make when someone doesn't specifically say they're adopted?
 
Tyrone,

This is part of the reason why I always say that its very important for anyone considering this species be well aware of the situation surrounding them. It is complicated, full of polar opinions with validity on both sides, and a lot of moral, as well as legal, considerations.

The issue with C. parsonii and many of these other Malagasy species is that even though they come in with CITES documents, and are thus legal animals, the origin of those animals is often drawn into question because of the rarity of documented captive breedings and the time since they were banned. Specifically, there is doubt as to whether they are actually CBB from parents imported before the 1995 ban or if they are actually wild collected hatchlings, captive hatched from eggs collected in the wild, captive hatched eggs from WC gravid females or CBB from parents imported after the 1995 ban. The latter four scenarios violate CITES but unless they can be proven, the animals are legal since they were issued CITES that were stamped and approved upon entry into the US.

The anger that is so often voiced by many members is not that the animals themselves were imported, sold or purchased illegally, but that the circumstances by which they were issued their legal CITES documents tends to be questionable at best. None of the individuals who purchased or adopted these animals have done anything illegal. Not even the importer has done anything illegal. The issue is what may have been fraudulently done to represent these animals as from completely legal, pre-1995 bloodlines, in order to obtain their CITES documents in the first place.

Kent & Ryan, I too would be happy to pass on any advice with C. parsonii you'd like.

Chris
 
Did they come from Thailand? just wondering because I saw the ones for $700 being shipped out of Thailand and I figured something like this would end up happening over here.
 
"He is starting a course of Baytril and Pancur."
From personal experience parsonii don't tolerate baytril very well, I lost a female a few years ago after giving a baytril injection. I've had really good results with ceftazidime.
These statements have not been approved by the fda ;)
 
Garrett said:
"He is starting a course of Baytril and Pancur."
From personal experience parsonii don't tolerate baytril very well, I lost a female a few years ago after giving a baytril injection. I've had really good results with ceftazidime.
These statements have not been approved by the fda ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks I will keep that in mind and keep an eye out for a problem. The vet I am using is quite knoledgeable and has treated a number of parsonii. My gut is to trust what he wants to do at this point. The vet did a culture so there may be a chance we need to change meds.

I will contact him and get his input just in case. I appriciate the info. Thank you
 
No problem Ryan, hopefully you caught this early. Mine displayed a really weird blotchy color pattern after starting the meds, she just looked awful. Something to look out for.
 
You know, Garrett may be absolutly right. So I would ask the vet in greater detail about this or in possible smaller doses. Hopefully Kent will read this also.
 
Titan said:
You know, Garrett may be absolutly right. So I would ask the vet in greater detail about this or in possible smaller doses. Hopefully Kent will read this also.
Click to expand...

I have talked to others whom keep a few parsonii that have used baytril with success. I am definitely going to be cautious.

Good news is he ate again for me today. So we are making progress. I really do appreciate the info and concern and will share any info that I happen upon. I will be in contact with the vet to at least bring this up to him.

Thanks again everyone.
 
okay.... got to say I was feeling a little weirded out by all this, but am feeling better about it now. And while I am jealous as H3LL, it would be sheer ignorant arrogance to think that I would be able to care for an animal of such caliber.

Congrats and best wishes!:)
 
I wouldn't use baytril injections for the simple fact that it causes necrosis at the injection site.
Fortaz is a much better choice IMO.
 
wow absolute nuclear thread. its a shame what happend with them, (i wish i knew all of the details) but ultimately i think it led them to the best possible home they could be in. i am assuming the vet is TG, and if RJ & TG cant save him, then he wasnt going to make it anyway. i have confidence he will do fine. i dont really know all of the details of how they got here, but i cant say that i blame the importer for trying to get them here. when i saw them i would have done anything i could to get my hands on them (regardless of the legality) if i thought i had the money to pull it off and take care of them properly. aside from the health problems, i have to say that physical appearance wise, they are without question, the most exquisite pair of chams i have ever seen. for the entire hobbies sake, i hope you have the best of luck with the both of them. jmo
 
Just remember that if these chameleons have arrrived without CITES paper work they are illegal and California Fish and Game will prosecute you for having them even if you did not import or pay for them.

"I would not touch those Parsons with a 10 foot pole if they don't have CITES paper work" a friend from Fish and Game.
 
Yeah, it seems someone has started a rumor that these were smuggled into the US which is not the case. These animals came in with CITES papers through a well-known importer/broker and were inspected and released by USF&W. They came in as captive bred and born from the same, usual source whenever these turn up for sale in the U.S. While I think everyone knows it is virtually impossible for any Parson's coming in to be the descendants of pre-1995 animals, USF&W can't prove otherwise and honors the CITES documents from the exporting country.
 
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