Calumma nasutum

[Ekona]

Thank you for the add. I recently obtained C. nasutum.

Here are photos of 3 different animals. Can anyone help determine M/F on these?

#1 This animal has remained consistently light colored and shows on occasion bluish rings on it's body.

#2 This animal has remained consistently dark reddish colored.

#3 This animal also had remained a consistent dark reddish color..

...but then had a dramatic color change when I added some UBV lighting over the enclosure - looking more like animal #1.

I see no evidence of dorsal spines in any of the three.
Your help is much appreciated. Thank you.
Dave

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I have not worked with this species yet. However I would say #1 I would say looks as though I would ID as a male. While #2 and #3 I would say are females. Different color of the rostral appendage can mean a separate species, meaning #1 may be a separate species. If #1 has a blue nose (looks as though it does) it has the prospects of being a Calumma linotum or Blue Nose Calumma Chameleon. If you could post clearer shots of the sides (sides of the head especially) of chameleon #2 and #3 that would help.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Ekona]

I have not worked with this species yet. However I would say #1 I would say looks as though I would ID as a male. While #2 and #3 I would say are females.

Jeremy, thank you for your reply and comments. That would be great to have both males and females. Thanks, also, to those who have liked this post. This is a great forum with fantastic amount of information and experience represented by all the members.

Different color of the rostral appendage can mean a separate species, meaning #1 may be a separate species. If #1 has a blue nose (looks as though it does) it has the prospects of being a Calumma linotum or Blue Nose Calumma Chameleon.

Yes, agreed. If all three were any of the species you mention, I would be quite happy. Mixed species, not so much, but it would not be too surprising. I can see that the rostral process of all three of my animals do have some blue scales and I also wondered if these could all be C. boettgeri, for instance, and hopefully not mixed species group.

Here is animal 2 clearly showing blue scales on the rostral process and up to the eye.

Does this make it C. linotum or C. boettgeri? Not necessarily according the reference below. C. nasutum also can show blue RP scales.

Here are some characteristics of C. nasutum from the following reference: Glaw, F. and Vences, M. (2007) A Field Guide to the Amphibians and Reptiles of Madagascar. Third Edition. Cologne, Vences & Glaw Verlag: 496pp.
"A short dorsal crest of 8-11 small tubercles may be present in males. Males possess a distinct temporal crest running behind the eye from below the eye orbit to the base of the casque.
Colouration is generally dull, ranging from grey to brown or dull green, with dark vertical crossbars along the flanks. A white lateral band is present in some specimens. There may be yellow or blue elements, and the legs are greenish. The rostral appendage is typically the same colour as the body, but may be blue."

If you could post clearer shots of the sides (sides of the head especially) of chameleon #2 and #3 that would help.

Here is a close up of #1. There appears to be what I think is a clearly defined temporal crest? with each scale having a black dot in it. If this is correct then it should be a male?

I hesitate to post the following photo of #3, as the wall of the enclosure is not crystal clear and makes for a somewhat blurred photo, but it may be good enough to show some basic characteristics. Better photos will follow.

 

[Dooley1]

Ekona,

I have kept these. They are most likely Calumma fallax (a related species to nasutum). None of the animals you've shown appear to be males. Blue noses do not define linotum or boettgeri specifically (or sex in this case). Occipital flaps are easy determining factors, and I do not see those in these photos.

Thanks,

kevin

 

[Ekona]

Kevin, thanks for your reply. C. fallax looks to be another cool species, very interesting this is what the most likely are. And all females would be less than ideal, but I'll have no problems growing these out and observing them for as long as I can. I've asked the importer if he has males.
I hope you had luck with the ones you had, feel free to PM me with any info on your successes or point me to others who have.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Just giving a go at helping. I actually sexed #1 in the first set of pictures from pictures #1 and #2, where the roastral process looks much larger than the other 2 chameleons in the first set of pictures. The actual second set of pictures shows though that the roastral process is not that much larger or actual more the same size as the other two chameleons. There is a lot of ambiguity of in this group in regards to IDing these chameleons. Just giving a go at IDing.

I recall reading somewhere that the Calumma boettgeri of Nosy Be could be ID'd from the nearby population of Calumma linotum in Amber Mountain National Park by roastral appendage color. Some like Calumma boettgeri have green roastral appendages. While Calumma linotum have blue roastral appendages.

Taxonomist have based differences in species and subspecies based on variation similar to this before. Look at the pink claws of Trioceros quadricornis gracilor compared to Trioceros quadricornis quadricornis and Trioceros quadricornis eisentrauti.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Ekona]

Jeremy, I would that your first ID were the reality! Compared to the other two, #1 looks more robust and appears to have more of an occipital crest or lobe than the other two, thus my original post. Perhaps it is just a larger female. Kevin's actual experience with them makes his call probably more certain. I really do appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts on this. One of the good about this forum is the varied perspectives and areas of knowledge that are shared and compared to the benefit of all.

I just read an article about the dimorphic differences in C. boettgeri, and the conclusion, after a detailed study of scale counts, body measurements, etc, was that, in that species, there were very little characteristics that could be used to clearly delineate M/F. And, as has been suggested elsewhere, the C. nasutum complex is most likely a clade of closely related populations with intergraded variations, thus making determining the "species" of imported animals of this complex difficult, if not certain - especially if the collecting location is not known.

 

[Ekona]

Found this photo of a cham identified as C. nasutum - it looks almost identical to the ones I have. The are definitely something in the nasutum complex.

https://alchetron.com/Calumma-nasutum

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Found this photo of a cham identified as C. nasutum - it looks almost identical to the ones I have. The are definitely something in the nasutum complex.

https://alchetron.com/Calumma-nasutum

IDing towards the reality is the idea. As Kevin stated and after looking at these pictures I think one of the best ways to help ID these species in the Calumma nasutum complex is whether or not they have got Occipital flaps or not.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[OldChamKeeper]

You got three females by the look of it.


<<< Goes back to his cave. >>>

 

[kinyonga]

@OldChamKeeper ... I'm worried about you! if you don't get out of that cave more often you better get a UVB light in it or grow mushrooms to eat in there because otherwise you're going to get MBD!

 

[OldChamKeeper]

@OldChamKeeper ... I'm worried about you! if you don't get out of that cave more often you better get a UVB light in it or grow mushrooms to eat in there because otherwise you're going to get MBD!

heh heh .... The first open space of my cave looks like something a caveman would use.... but when you go down the secret door in the back even Batman would would be envious of my subterranean tropical paradise with all the electronics where I am trying to clone dinosaurs......

 

[kinyonga]

@OldChamKeeper ...guess you haven't had any luck cloning them yet eh? Spending so much time in a cave yourself I'd have expected it to be done by now!

 

[Ekona]

You got three females by the look of it.


<<< Goes back to his cave. >>>

Thanks for the confirmation, OldChamKeeper - I'll loving refer to them from now on as the "Calumma Sisters" and wonder if they can sing (in harmony). Since I've been keeping chams, I find myself inordinately interested in twigs and branches, houseplants, lights, timers, misters, dyi enclosures...well, yea, my space is quickly turning into and indoor greenhouse. Not good for the wallet, but good for the soul! Must...resist...getting...any...more...chams...(for now).

 

[kinyonga]

@Ekona ...said..."Must...resist...getting...any...more...chams...(for now)"...operative word so...for now!! Too late your hooked and addicted!!

 

[CJ's Exotics]

Must...resist...getting...any...more...chams...(for now).

Easier said than done, if you need any help, there are people here that can help.

 

[Ekona]

Kinyonga - D@mn'it Jim, not another one!!
CJ's Exotics - I'm counting on that.

 

[Dooley1]

Ekona, the mature male of this species is pretty obvious when you see them in person. They have clear hemipenal bulges and a larger more defined head.

 

[Dooley1]

This photo from Google is a good example

 

[Ekona]

This photo from Google is a good example

View attachment 200865

Thanks, Kevin for the confirmation and attached photo. This is a really beautiful species both males and females.