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Discussion in 'Chameleon Food' started by jamest0o0, May 17, 2017.
Anyone know where to get them these days? They're extremely nutritious and my chams loved them
not all of us are americonos on the coast. What is your location?
georgiacrickets.com I love these guys. I've had 1 problem and they fixed it right away.
haha fair enough, I'm in PA (Northeast).
Have you ever had the problem with discoloration? I've seen a few threads about it being caused by the butter worms so I'm hesitant to get them for my cham again. I would say elliots butterworms, good prices and free shipping.
Have an order placed for elliots
And no i haven't noticed anything, i'm unaware of this? I have heard some chams are allergic, but i haven't noticed anything wrong.
Rainbow mealworms had them and my cham LOVES them.
butter worms actually aren't that nutriotious... idk where people get this idea, they do have a slightly higher calcium ratio than most fatty worms, but they are still a lot of fat (because they are grubs) and they are very hard to gutload with anything decent and they have a short intestinal tract. They are mostly just digested wood pulp. Just so you guys know XD They can't be bred at all in the US either, because they are exposed to small amounts of radiation before being brought into the States so they are made sterile.
I have heard of some chams having reactions to butterworms. I guess it depends on what they are fed with.
@Andee I think I may have gotten them confused with something else when I checked the chart, however I disagree. How are they any worse than supers or wax? None of the worms particularly gutload well, but these will eat squash readily which is full of nutrients. I posted one of many charts I was looking at when I posted this. I guess it's hard to tell their exact amounts though with just percentages of what makes up each feeder. I still don't see how they aren't a very nutritious addition to variety. I'd rather feed them than supers or ward's most days of the week. Of course I'm talking about feeding them as a staple, the same way you wouldn't feed waxworms as a staple, but as a treat a few times a week.
@Davecameos I've heard that as well, haven't noticed anything with mine though. Is there something in particular to look out for when feeding them?
Yes but from what I understand they only eat steamed squash, which takes out a lot of nutrition compared to something you would feed a super worm. Supers at least eat almost everything under the sun as far as gutloading material and are longer than butterworms so since they both have simple intestinal tracts longer is better that way. You don't really feed butter worms here, they don't need and most of the won't eat anything other than squash. They survive off a specific type of tree out in I think Africa and South America. They are dangerous pests. Which is why they are radiated before coming here. They are all harvested from the "wild" technically. Or if they farm them I would just assume they feed them the wood that is cut down and not usable? I am not sure if they eat the actual wood or xylem. I assume they just eat the wood like most grubs. I am assuming the cause reactions in chameleons because of the radiation they are exposed to and it depends on where you are getting your supply and whether they were exposed to a safe amount for their size etc.
If you have a Fleet Farm (Or probably any farming sort of store like that) near you, you might be able to get them there, but I think they're meant for fishing and might not be "feeder quality" if that makes a difference.
I just ordered some from Dubia Roaches.
I just realized my autocorrect butchered what I was trying to say, but I see your point @Andee i made this post 2 months ago and have since realized they weren't as amazing as I thought. They still don't seem to make such a bad mix to variety. I've had them survive in my soil for months, I wonder if they were feeding on something in there. They are larvae not grubs(unless they're the same?), they eat the leaves similar to how a silkworms does. Their calcium ratio is the best I know of and also seem to hold a decent amount of protein. I microwave the squash still in It's skin, this destroys very little nutrients and it may even make it easier to digest and absorb(like some sources say it does for people). Anyway my point isn't that they're the best feeder, but that they make a strong addition to variety.
Also have you seen the thread that went around the internet in 2010 about cresties getting their skin BURNED by butterworms? And that they can eat plastic(though I've never seen this).
butter worms don't eat plastic from what I know, but wax worms do... i don't know about cresties getting burned... I wouldn't be surprised if they got a bad batch honestly... I don't know all the process of the radiating that the butter worms go through *shrugs*
They are larvae but they remind of beetle larvae/grubs, so I have my moments.
But anyway I know some butter worms I have kept have lived for 2 months or so and that's without refrigeration. In the refrigetor I assume it's much longer?
Their calcium ratio is definitely better for a fattier worm. But I don't feed them because of the ability to get worms who are smaller who have been hit with too much radiation. They aren't possible to raise here so I haven't even thought about it.
The radiation that is used to sterilize surgical supplies, food and insects does not remain behind. It's not that kind of radiation. Does it deplete the nutrition??? Who knows.
Here is a link to an interesting thread on butter worm reactions. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/the-ill-effects-of-butterworms.100819/#post-927572
The thing is, them eating leaves doesn't make a lot of sense with how their bodies are shaped and how clumsy they are... but I can't argue with it... since everywhere else is positive they eat leaves
Sorry but the most common one used with insects has a longer half life than you'd expect, around 5+ years for an ingredient (for those of you who don't know you periodic table) of 100% Cobalt, and the other ingredient is Caesium which lasts around 30 years I think? This is what I understood from the scientific article I read, I will be posting it just in case anyone can understand it better and correct me so we worry less XD. There are two other ways used, which may explain why certain groups of butter worms don't affect chameleons? Maybe it depends on where you buy them? dunno?
https://nucleus.iaea.org/sites/naipc/ididas/Relevant Library/Bakri Sterilizing insects.pdf
So around pages 4-7 you will find what I was looking at. My brains a bit slow today so if anyone figures out something more hopeful from this that would be totally awesome XD. Otherwise I just hope this helps with whatever we have worried about for years?