Burns

[Fred]

Hi Tricia!

I'm going to answer your private message here, only because I need to correct some information that was presented to you in this thread. It may be beneficial to somebody else in the future.

Welcome to the world of chameleon keeping. Unfortunately you've started the hard way but things can certainly be changed.

This particular species (and the sub-species I suppose) come from a wide range in Africa and thus occupy many different ecological habitats; dry forests, savannahs, jungles etc. Obviously each sub-species is exploiting different aspects of their environment to survive, but it's this vast variation that allows the Flapnecks some adaptability in captivity. To start, I keep my Flapneck Chameleons much like a Veiled. The "Raising Kitty" website is excellent for basic care; cage size, temps all that jazz. The only thing I do differently is I keep my humidity considerably higher than most people. I aim for 80% or more. Oh and contrary to what was said, the Flapnecks are not considered a true montane chameleon. They are lowland and thus can take higher temperatures. If you haven't seen it: here is an excellent article on the while dilepis complex. http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=49

It sounds like the habitat you've newly created for Fred is perfect. I've found the Flaps aren't very active so huge cage isn't necessarily needed - that 24x24x36 is great. Your lights are fine. I'd maybe ditch that fogger and replace it with a cool mist humidifier but that's up to you. I've used both with equally good results. Because I have multiple chameleons, it's easier for me to humidify my room than a fogger on individual cages. I've found the Flaps a little shyer than some species so having a densely planted cage will help him hide and feel more comfortable. I noticed you are in FL so putting him outside if you can is recommended. Nothing better than natural sunlight for chameleons. If you do put him outside, keep the cage in a shady area so he has options of where to sit and bask - direct hot sun doesn't offer him that. Even in the shade, he gets the beneficial UV rays.

As for the burns, I'd recommend a visit to a vet for a professional opinion. Fred may need antibiotics to properly heal. http://www.herpvetconnection.com/florida.shtml Ivan Alfonso in Orlando is wonderful if you are close to him. Perhaps other members can give some recommendations for vets in Florida? Otherwise pick up some Silvadene and apply that to the burns. Burns do take a while to heal up so don't get discouraged. He will end up with scars eventually but that won't affect him. Fred may also be a wild caught (WC) chameleon so having a check-up and/or fecal done is wise.

Now for some bad news - I'm not entirely convinced you have a Flapneck Chameleon. He definitely has the ventrolateral squamation (scales) that is reminiscent of a Flapneck, but not the regular scales, casque, patterns and the obvious flaps. He is, perhaps, a young guy and the lobes haven't fully developed yet? If you could post some more pics I'll be able to say for sure. Full body shots from above and from the side including the first part of the tail are the best. I should be able to sex him for you too if you include the tail base. Don't panic, if he turns out to be a different species, (Chamaeleo chameleon ?) all of the new items you have purchased will not change! Only slight modifications to basking spot temperatures and humidity levels will change and that's easy to do.

Good luck, keep me posted on his recovery. You've definitely made excellent steps to making Fred's life a better one. Now get that camera out!

Cheers,
t

Thank you!! I will post lots of pics tonight!!

 

[Fred]

trace here r the pics

 

[BocaJan]

Is he starting to shed some of that dead skin off? Poor baby, looks pretty icky. He sure was a crispy critter. Shame on those people that allowed the burning to happen. Are you putting any ointment on it?

 

[Trace]

Thanks for the pics! Just going by the smaller occipital lobes, I think you've got yourself a male Chamaeleo roperi. It is considered a Flapneck Chameleon - it's one of the odd sub-species I mentioned earlier. The burns have certainly changed since you posted last week. They look healthier and healing. He's definitely trying to shed that area so keep the humidity up, but not wet so to help with that.

His casque (top of his head) is a little sunken which is an indicator of a few things but what normally comes to mind is dehydration or malnutrition. Considering his bulgy eyes and poor care before you got him, he's probably a little on the thin side. Understandable all things considered. Make sure he has plenty water and good, dusted, gutloaded insects and that will rectify itself slowly. He does have a little open sore on his chin. Make sure he isn't rubbing his face against cage furniture and that will heal up too.

He looks a little blanched in the third and fifth pics and that indicates too warm a temperature. That might just be the pics though and I'd be remiss if I didn't say anything. Also too, he's pretty cool little guy, but do try and keep handling to a minimum right now. Chameleons are solitary creatures and adding the stress of handling can slow down the healing process.

You asked about keeping two in a cage. No. Not at all. The Flapnecks are particularly territorial and do not tolerate each other (even if it's a male/female pair) in the same terrarium.

Again, I'd recommend a vet for a check up. All things considered, I've seen a lot worse specimens than him so I think he's got a fighting chance. Keep up the good work.

Good luck!
Cheers,
t

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Trace your help here is awesoME!

I have a question ...

Is the hood fixture a double screw in ( meaning it accomodates 2 screw in bulbs) and is your UVB light a compact fluorescent?

-Brad

 

[Fred]

Yes the $60 dollar hood the petstore sold me for an aquarium is a double screw in but I only have one 50 watt basking bulb in it and a 5.0 UVB tube flurescent

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Excellent!
Just checking to make sure that wasn't missed.
Is the pet store a chain? You should be able to return all the stuff you were sold that you don't need.
If you can, include that hood!

Good work with Fred ... as Trace pointed out, he is looking much better!

-Brad

 

[Fred]

Thanks for the pics! Just going by the smaller occipital lobes, I think you've got yourself a male Chamaeleo roperi. It is considered a Flapneck Chameleon - it's one of the odd sub-species I mentioned earlier. The burns have certainly changed since you posted last week. They look healthier and healing. He's definitely trying to shed that area so keep the humidity up, but not wet so to help with that.

His casque (top of his head) is a little sunken which is an indicator of a few things but what normally comes to mind is dehydration or malnutrition. Considering his bulgy eyes and poor care before you got him, he's probably a little on the thin side. Understandable all things considered. Make sure he has plenty water and good, dusted, gutloaded insects and that will rectify itself slowly. He does have a little open sore on his chin. Make sure he isn't rubbing his face against cage furniture and that will heal up too.

He looks a little blanched in the third and fifth pics and that indicates too warm a temperature. That might just be the pics though and I'd be remiss if I didn't say anything. Also too, he's pretty cool little guy, but do try and keep handling to a minimum right now. Chameleons are solitary creatures and adding the stress of handling can slow down the healing process.

You asked about keeping two in a cage. No. Not at all. The Flapnecks are particularly territorial and do not tolerate each other (even if it's a male/female pair) in the same terrarium.

Again, I'd recommend a vet for a check up. All things considered, I've seen a lot worse specimens than him so I think he's got a fighting chance. Keep up the good work.

Good luck!
Cheers,
t

Well I do know the pet store I got him from he was there for at least 3 months in an aqarium that was never cleaned or drained, had a dripper and was sprayed alot, but they were only feeding him 1 cricket every other day and no dusting!! I ordered a varity of things for fred to try from mullberry farms including the high calcium worms(?), crickets, silkworms, and something else, basically one pkg of everything that was 3/4 inch or smaller (so no roaches yet) the pics that he looks blanched in were taken under a celing fan/light combo and the flash was on , the other pictures were taken outside in the sunlight. It scares me to think anything would happen to him because I read about so many unsocial and some mean chams and he is so opposite, I have never seen his defensive mode (puff up or hiss) and he loves to come out and being held, but I will try to reduce all un-necessary handling until he sees a herp vet, I am calling some tomarrow and seeing which one has the most flap neck type experience and see when they can see him. Thank you again sooooo much for your help!! Are your flaps super sweet too? Is it the species or just depends more on individual personality?

 

[Fred]

Excellent!
Just checking to make sure that wasn't missed.
Is the pet store a chain? You should be able to return all the stuff you were sold that you don't need.
If you can, include that hood!

Good work with Fred ... as Trace pointed out, he is looking much better!

-Brad

Okay here is where I am 28 yo blonde female will show, I bought him from an Ace Hardware which are a chain but indepentantly owned and operated and this one is the only one I've ever known to sell pets (thank god!!) that should have been a clue, dont buy a reptile from a "hardware store" even if the sales dude talks a good game and pretends to be the reptile expert, I should have done my research, and purchased one from a well known private breeder and those will be my future intentions... but, it was getting close to christmas and its all my 8 yo step son has asked for in the last 3 years and until a friend of mine took me over to his aquarium and I fell in love with him at first sight, I never before would have considered it, so at the time it seemed like fate, and I'm not saying I wouldn't have bought him if I had it to do all over again because I would have even faster knowing what I know now just to have rescued him!!All that aside, they wont let me return anything so I am slowing just replacing everything and purchasing other stuff i need. If you know of any good websites with good deals and reputations let me know!! I am looking for a good digital thermometer -the kind with a probe, a new holder for my linier UVB light, (we just got a clamp light so we would like to get rid of that bulky hood but need some suggestions on something new to hose the bulb in), a cool mist humidifyer, timer for the lights, i have a reostat for the bulb to adj the temp, and we got a bunch more cover live plants for the enclosure and are wondering about lighting for the plants? also a thermal gun to test freds temp, I found a website for that someone linked me to, thanks sorry for the life story!!

 

[summoner12]

Good luck and welcome!

Yes the $60 dollar hood the petstore sold me for an aquarium is a double screw in but I only have one 50 watt basking bulb in it and a 5.0 UVB tube flurescent

You said its a double screw in... It means your using a Compact UVB?

These are not good to use. I lost a Panther chameleon to that lamp. The lamp pictured is a 10.0.... but 5.0 lamps are still considered a bad idea. I would return all of the things the pet boy sold you and shop at LLL reptile or any other online supply store. You can get an 18" linear 5.0 tube lamp (highly recommended!) and a hood from them. LLL has great prices and selection. (I bring them up because I shop there in person, no I don't ge a discount for spreading the name lol)

Check out the UV guide to learn about your animals UV needs.


Edit: They won't let you return anything?!?!?! WTH!? Were the items you purchased the only things they had for animals or do they stock this stuff? I would throw the biggest shit fit in front of a bunch of people... mimic your step son when he wants a candy bar and you won't give it to him I think stomping your feet will help immensely!

Edit2: I needed to remove my info about the ZooMed producing UVC. I think in my bitterness about losing my panther I get mixed up that the Rzilla is the one producing UVC, not the ZooMed. (Thanks Dave!)

 

[summoner12]

Hope this helps.

Okay here is where I am 28 yo blonde female will show, I bought him from an Ace Hardware which are a chain but indepentantly owned and operated and this one is the only one I've ever known to sell pets (thank god!!) that should have been a clue, dont buy a reptile from a "hardware store" even if the sales dude talks a good game and pretends to be the reptile expert, I should have done my research, and purchased one from a well known private breeder and those will be my future intentions... but, it was getting close to christmas and its all my 8 yo step son has asked for in the last 3 years and until a friend of mine took me over to his aquarium and I fell in love with him at first sight, I never before would have considered it, so at the time it seemed like fate, and I'm not saying I wouldn't have bought him if I had it to do all over again because I would have even faster knowing what I know now just to have rescued him!!All that aside, they wont let me return anything so I am slowing just replacing everything and purchasing other stuff i need. If you know of any good websites with good deals and reputations let me know!! I am looking for a good digital thermometer -the kind with a probe, a new holder for my linier UVB light, (we just got a clamp light so we would like to get rid of that bulky hood but need some suggestions on something new to hose the bulb in), a cool mist humidifyer, timer for the lights, i have a reostat for the bulb to adj the temp, and we got a bunch more cover live plants for the enclosure and are wondering about lighting for the plants? also a thermal gun to test freds temp, I found a website for that someone linked me to, thanks sorry for the life story!!

ok... im just gonna start a new post... here is what you need.. buy as you need or do it all at once...

• Linear UVB lamp
• UVB lamp Hood
• Heat lamp fixture
• Heat lamp
• Thermometer
• Vines
• Vicks 5100N

I use all of the products listed above. The Vick's needs filtered water.... I fear the hard water I've been feeding mine... plus running it 24/7 has burned it out... I think I can repair it... but it'd be good to run RO water or some kind of filtered water. I have the temp gauges all over my place to give me reading and even one that is in the tree of my free range Melleri... it is misted and climbed on and still working. People will tell you to just use a normal household lamp for head. This works but at times will require a higher wattage than a lamp that is focused... using more power. Its up to you. I just the spot lamps from zoomed or Flood lamps from Home Depot. They both but out what you need for your cham.

 

[Fred]

You said its a double screw in... It means your using a Compact UVB?

These are not good to use. They produce UVC which is used in water purification to kill anything living in the water. I lost a Panther chameleon to that lamp. The lamp pictured is a 10.0.... but 5.0 lamps are still considered a bad idea. I would return all of the things the pet boy sold you and shop at LLL reptile or any other online supply store. You can get an 18" linear 5.0 tube lamp (highly recommended!) and a hood from them. LLL has great prices and selection. (I bring them up because I shop there in person, no I don't ge a discount for spreading the name lol)

Check out the UV guide to learn about your animals UV needs.


Edit: They won't let you return anything?!?!?! WTH!? Were the items you purchased the only things they had for animals or do they stock this stuff? I would throw the biggest shit fit in front of a bunch of people... mimic your step son when he wants a candy bar and you won't give it to him I think stomping your feet will help immensely!

no its the lineiar tube kind, it has a double screw and ballace( so it holds 3 lights, 2 screw in and one tubular) Thanks for the tantrum idea, i will give it a shot!!

 

[summoner12]

no its the lineiar tube kind, it has a double screw and ballace( so it holds 3 lights, 2 screw in and one tubular) Thanks for the tantrum idea, i will give it a shot!!

ooooh ok! Then please excuse my mix up

 

[Fred]

ooooh ok! Then please excuse my mix up

no please, any possibilities ask, because I only have 2weeks experience and can still make mistakes! I really appreciate your concern and spending your time (All of you) helping others provide the best possible care and make it all very easy to understand the complex stuff involved

 

[Trace]

Hi Tricia!

I'm looking for an update. How's Fred feeling now? He's been making good progress is that still happening? Any new or different worries on your part? Pics?

Cheers!
t

 

[Fred]

fred update

Well just thought I'd give u an update on Fred, he is doing much better!! I still have to take him to the vet for a fecal / blood work but I want him to be stable before putting him through a 2 hour drive one way to the vet, will make for a long ride in the car, any tips for vet trips will be appriciated!! He is all thru with his shed, most of the burns are no longer visible, he seems to have scaring like a gray ash color where they were the deepest, I have all of the supplies suggested, thanks for the link to the shopping cart it made it soooo easy!! We got the Vicks Ultrasonic humidifier from K-Mart they were on sale for like 40.00 His cage is FULL of nice live plants, new lighter hood for linier bulb, his dripper hose runs into the top of his enclosure, he actually drinks directly from the dripper kinda like a hamster LOL!! We made the mister that was posted, and have it and the lights on timers and made the milk jug feeder with screen for the crickets, he's adapted well to that!! He still isn't eating worms, of any kind, I've purchased them all (phenox, silk, meal, super ???? so I'm not sure what to do about that ) We have been taking him outside a little, its hard because we have sooooo many outside cats we have to hang out there with him, wish we had a pool to sit them around to enjoy the Fl sun I want to thank everyone soo much for your continued support!!

 

[summoner12]

Glad to hear!

Well just thought I'd give u an update on Fred, he is doing much better!! I still have to take him to the vet for a fecal / blood work but I want him to be stable before putting him through a 2 hour drive one way to the vet, will make for a long ride in the car, any tips for vet trips will be appriciated!! He is all thru with his shed, most of the burns are no longer visible, he seems to have scaring like a gray ash color where they were the deepest, I have all of the supplies suggested, thanks for the link to the shopping cart it made it soooo easy!! We got the Vicks Ultrasonic humidifier from K-Mart they were on sale for like 40.00 His cage is FULL of nice live plants, new lighter hood for linier bulb, his dripper hose runs into the top of his enclosure, he actually drinks directly from the dripper kinda like a hamster LOL!! We made the mister that was posted, and have it and the lights on timers and made the milk jug feeder with screen for the crickets, he's adapted well to that!! He still isn't eating worms, of any kind, I've purchased them all (phenox, silk, meal, super ???? so I'm not sure what to do about that ) We have been taking him outside a little, its hard because we have sooooo many outside cats we have to hang out there with him, wish we had a pool to sit them around to enjoy the Fl sun I want to thank everyone soo much for your continued support!!

Glad to hear it all working out!

For your Vick's, try and use RO water or filtered water. It'll last longer if you clean it often as well.

If you put him outside, PLEASE use a cage. Chams can be snatched up by birds or a cat or he might just decide the tree in your yard is way cooler than the one in his cage.. and he'll split when you aren't looking.

If you made the mister in my thread, let me know how it works. I am curious to know how often you need to pump it for the amount of time it is on. I don't use the one I built because I have a system already. It's for sale if anyone wants ?!?!?

As for vet visit boxes....

I made these from PetCo boxes...

Place you guy into the box... close it up... and place him in a closet, close the door and let him settle down. I would do this about 30 minutes before you leave for the vet. Since it is dark he will fall asleep. When your ready to go just gently take him in the box, covered with a sheet or maybe in a couple of paper bags... (give him some air holes). Place him on the floor of the car and keep the air around 74*. He'll sleep most of the way to the vet if you keep it dark enough... but remember ventilation.

 

[BocaJan]

Since the cham has had a shed since the first burn pics, could we please see how he looks now?

 

[kenya]

I am so happy that you are doing well with Fred! You are the ideal newbie and are doing fantastic. Once Fred gets a vet check up and any parasites taken care of, it seems you will be good to go! Just keep reading all you can, ask questions and post photos. Welcome to the chameleon world!

 

[Fred]

Glad to hear it all working out!

For your Vick's, try and use RO water or filtered water. It'll last longer if you clean it often as well.

If you put him outside, PLEASE use a cage. Chams can be snatched up by birds or a cat or he might just decide the tree in your yard is way cooler than the one in his cage.. and he'll split when you aren't looking.

If you made the mister in my thread, let me know how it works. I am curious to know how often you need to pump it for the amount of time it is on. I don't use the one I built because I have a system already. It's for sale if anyone wants ?!?!?

As for vet visit boxes....

I made these from PetCo boxes...

Place you guy into the box... close it up... and place him in a closet, close the door and let him settle down. I would do this about 30 minutes before you leave for the vet. Since it is dark he will fall asleep. When your ready to go just gently take him in the box, covered with a sheet or maybe in a couple of paper bags... (give him some air holes). Place him on the floor of the car and keep the air around 74*. He'll sleep most of the way to the vet if you keep it dark enough... but remember ventilation.

Thanks! Yes we bought distilled h2o for the vicks, is this okay?
For now we carry his cage outside-what a pain, my husband is going to build one outside for him, yes its the sprayer off ur thread, hes having some problems with it leaking, im not sure on how long it lasts, he always does it, we are going to buy a herp mist soon, the diy is great for starting out!! your very creative and handy!! Thanks for the vet transport advice!!