Bulging eyes/loss of balance resulting in death

M

Mrchad

New Member
I've read about bulging eyes on here before but this seems to be slightly different. My chameleon passed away this morning, so I'm posting to find out more and hopefully prevent someone else from losing theirs.

General cage info

I have a 6-7 foot long aquarium with a metallic grid on the top to allow for air flow. I have a base of clay rocks, charcoal and then earth. I have 4-5 different plants in the tank and asked to make sure they weren't poisonous.

I have two sun glow neon tubes and one 60w basking light. I also have one ceramic heater for over night. One of of the cage is about 74 degrees. The middle of the cage has a basking spot probably closer to 77 degrees and the other end might be 72 degrees F.

I had two Rudis Chameleons and three pygmies living in the cage. My last Rudis died in exactly the same way as my Pygmy died this morning, but the Pygmy died much quicker.

I found the Pygmy lying slightly on its side last night and it was very dark. I picked it up and one of its eyes was severely pushed out. It was also bloated. It was still able to grip my hand.

I gently rinsed it under the sink with lukewarm water, trying to get it to drink and to rinse it's eye. It would wiggle around disorientated but did open its mouth once or twice to drink. It's throat seemed swollen.

I gave it calcium and electrolyte and a multi vitamin (I can check the brand names of these once I'm home)
I then placed it in a small cricket holder I had so loose crickets wouldn't bother him overnight and he had passed away this morning.
I had him under a ceramic heater at 72 degree F (22degree) and this not in he looked almost charred and had passed away :(

The light was not hot at all.

I had been feeding mostly crickets that were eating lettuce, cherries, carrots and brocolli. I also liked to give them outdoor flies (the ones that hang around garbages) for variety. I dusted the crickets every second day with calcium.

I can't think of anything else to provide. I had taken a video of the chameleon with the bulging eye and pale color last night but I'm not sure if that will help diagnose.
Any information would be greatly appreciated. :(
 
I think there are a few things here. First, ditch the aquarium. They need to be housed SEPERATELY in screen cages like reptibreeze, dragonstrand, etc. just having the top open is not adequate ventilation. Housing them together can be very stressful. They are solitary creatures and need to be kept that way in captivity unless they have a huge free range greenhouse or something similar.

Also, ditch the substrate. Keep the bottom of the screen cage clean. The substrate can damage their tongues, eyes or cause GI obstructions.

I don't know what that sun glow tube is but if it doesn't provide UVB then that could be your biggest problem of all. In addition, all lights and heat should be off at night. They don't have this in the wild and shouldn't at night in captivity either. They benefit from the spike in temperature in the morning and keeping as close to their natural environment is key.

So my question is do you provide UVB? If so, how old is the light?
Also, what was you misting/hydration schedule?
Can you post a couple pictures of the chams and your setup?
 
Thanks Eric.

The neon bulbs do provide UVB. I'm not sure how old the neon is though.

I thought that the pygmys could be housed with earth. I had a few people mention that the cage was big enough where they wouldn't cross paths that often and would have enough personal space.

I'll double check the lighting when I'm home. Maybe it was earth that caused the eye infection?
 
Pygmies can be house in tanks with bioactive substrate. That's how most people keep them. I don't know any particulars about Rudis, but I think it was a mistake to mix the two species in the same enclosure.
 
Fish tanks are the biggest NO NO for chameleons. All screen cages are a must. I have heard before that pygmys can be the exception to the rule but for sure Rudis chameleons are not. I'd be willing to bet that besides the fish tank, stress played some sort of role in your chameleons deaths. Like one of the above posters said they are solitary animals. Having multiple chameleons in a cage can cause a great amount of stress. Add multiple others of a different species and I can't see anything good coming from it.
I'm very sorry for your losses. I guess all you can do at this point is learn from your mistakes. Again very sorry.
 
Thanks Craig.

It's never easy losing a chameleon or pet :( I was told that the Rudis could be in an aquarium, and heard varying ideas regarding mixing the pygmies with the Rudis.

I can say that the two Rudis Chaneleons would often hang out on the same tree and even in the same branch (both females) without showing any aggressive puffing or color variations. The pygmies normally stayed on either end of the tanks where it was cooler and only once did I see one appear to be very dark in proximity to the larger Rudis.

I only have one Ruris and one Pygmy left. I'll post a picture of the enclosure when I'm back from work. Hoping these two live a full life.
 
Mrchad said:
Thanks Eric.

The neon bulbs do provide UVB. I'm not sure how old the neon is though.

I thought that the pygmys could be housed with earth. I had a few people mention that the cage was big enough where they wouldn't cross paths that often and would have enough personal space.

I'll double check the lighting when I'm home. Maybe it was earth that caused the eye infection?
Click to expand...

You may be right about the pygmys and earth. I was speaking in general with most chameleons but pygmys may be the exception, idk. Good luck with the remaining two. It's tough losing an animal prematurely.
 
TheEricJ said:
You may be right about the pygmys and earth. I was speaking in general with most chameleons but pygmys may be the exception, idk. Good luck with the remaining two. It's tough losing an animal prematurely.
Click to expand...

Your description of the swelling in eye, throat, etc sort of leads me to consider some type of infection, and it could have been something contagious. You had two different species sharing space that were probably imported, right? There could have been something one or more came in with. How long were they together? Did they come in at different times and if so, were they quarantined? The tank setup would have been generally OK for pygmies, but if you mixed species from different habitats something one could tolerate might have been a problem for the other species. And, all of that could be complicated by close quarters (sharing all the climbing structures, drinking off the same leaves, contact with shared substrate, the relatively low air exchange of a tank), and constant low level territorial stress. Pygmies can be kept in small groups but I don't know if rudis tolerates this (you had 2 together). What you saw were symptoms of an unknown illness, not the cause of death on their own.

Eye problems can also be triggered by vitamin deficiencies but I don't think this is as common in pygmies as it is in the more arboreal species. FYI, the gutload was pretty limited, and broccoli is known to bind up calcium which may have caused some vitamin imbalances.

Without necropsies or tissue analyses on these guys you couldn't rule out a contagious cause or nutritional. It just sounds like the whole "community" wasn't a good idea.
 
Last edited:
I had bought the original two pygmies and two Rudis last December. They all did fine and I added a third Pygmy.

I hadn't had any deaths in about two months and I thought the last Rudis died because I wasn't supplementing vitamins at the time.

Thought I had it figured out now with calcium and vitamins. :(

I just uploaded a pic from my phone.. Not sure if it will work. Looks to be upside down..
 

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Now that I've read more I feel really bad.

So I've bought a small 4 inch fan that circulates more air. A few leaves are just visibly moving, you really have to stare to notice it, so I figure it's not too much of a breeze.

I've removed one ceramic heater to bring a cooler area and I've added in a lot of shrubbery to make hiding spots for the last Pygmy survivor.

I saw him in a stare down with the rudis chameleon and he was brown and orange. Definitely not happy. Ever since his lady friend died he's been dark colored and I can only imagine unhappy.

I'll show a pic of the extra plants I added. Hoping that helps him
 

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Mrchad said:
Now that I've read more I feel really bad.

So I've bought a small 4 inch fan that circulates more air. A few leaves are just visibly moving, you really have to stare to notice it, so I figure it's not too much of a breeze.

I've removed one ceramic heater to bring a cooler area and I've added in a lot of shrubbery to make hiding spots for the last Pygmy survivor.

I saw him in a stare down with the rudis chameleon and he was brown and orange. Definitely not happy. Ever since his lady friend died he's been dark colored and I can only imagine unhappy.

I'll show a pic of the extra plants I added. Hoping that helps him
Click to expand...

I still think the mix of the two species is a lot of your problem. See what happens if you separate the two. I'd suspect both will relax more.
 
I have to agree with Carlton about keeping the two species in the same cage as being a big part of the problem. You said one was staring the other one down...that would be very stressful IMHO. It would really be in the chameleons' best interest to be separated.

Also, I feel that by not quarantining them you likely cross contaminated them.

Btw...pygmy chameleons are very good at playing dead...just so you know for the future.

Jcarlsen...I've been keeping chameleons for over 25 years and when I first started keeping them I kept them in fish tanks....and the Fischers, Senegals, C. Chameleons, etc I kept lived for over four years...and they were all WC and adult when I got them. I'm not saying in this day and age or if you live in a hot area that it's the best option but WHEN DONE CORRECTLY it can work. It requires attention to humidity, light positioning, water/moisture control, etc.

All screen cages come with issues too. With them you have temperature control issues and humidity issues as well....but at the opposite end of the scale.
 
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