Broken Leg

[chevycham]

I agree also here. I am by no means an experienced owner of reptiles, but, when we bought Chevy I believe that I took on the responsibility to give him a good home and do whatever is needed to keep him healthy. I get that sometimes many don't take into account that at some point there could come a time where the animal needs to see a Vet and that can be extremely expensive depending on the situation. I am a firm believer that if you chose to bring an animal into your home you are choosing to take full responsibility for that living and breathing thing just as you would a human being. They bleed, they hurt and they feel just as we do but may be in different ways. I am not saying that you should put your animal in bed with you every night and treat them just like a human, but, they deserve the same compassion as we do. I had no idea how expensive Chevy was going to be, but, I did what I had to in order to make him healthy because he deserved the chance at a good life and now he is a happy Cham.

 

[werecat]

I agree that you should not give Tylenol or any other pain killer. All animals process these things differently and you will likely kill him. That should be done by a vet. Also, unless you are a doctor or vet yourself, do not try to set the leg or pop it back in place. Also best done by a vet. Hopefully you can get him in soon and the treatment will not be too costly. If it is, do consider euthanasia. It is more humane and usually not very costly. Reptiles often hide pain so it is difficult to know if they are suffering or not.

For now until his vet appointment, make sure he is getting proper calcium and vitamins and leave him alone. Stressing him will slow the healing process. You may be surprised that treatment isn't that high. I had to deal with an unexpected eye problem in my chameleon and it was reasonable. I do understand having to work within your means. I've been wanting to upgrade my cham's cage for quite some time, but have had to put that off because of the vet bills. Perhaps there is something you can sacrifice for a short time to pay for the unexpected vet bill.

Lastly, if you choose to let him live with it, he may adapt quite well. Many animals in the wild adapt to injuries and deformities. Despite multiple treatments and us doing everything we could, my cham's eye never healed and he is mostly blind in that eye. He has adapted very well and hunts successfuly on his own. Still, if you do go this route and Petri is actually in pain, he will suffer and probably have a much shorter life.

I wish you luck with a tough decision. I know everyone here just wants the best for your cham and wishes for him not to suffer. It is because we all care so much about these marvelous little animals.

 

[eat2muchrice]

Vet Update:

Finally took Petri to see the vet. Unfortunately there is nothing they can do for his leg, because of the location of the break on this thigh bone being so close to his back hip, they would have to tape up his whole back and that would make him almost immobile. His best advice is to leave him alone as much as possible, it will take 3-4 months to heal. He said two possible things could happen, the bone reattaches itself or it creates a new segment in the leg. Either way he said Petri is very strong and healthy, he still has a good grip and can use all the muscles in the leg and foot. He will adapt to the broken leg and heal just fine.

He did prescribe Ketoprofin (version of ibprofin), to use if he seems overly stressed from the pain or any change in his daily routine and gave me some Calcium Glubionate (liquid calcium) to help with bone growth. Other than that he was impressed with our care for Petri and thinks we have done a great job raising him up.

I would also like to say thanks to everyone who gave advice and consultation, when situations like this happen to people (like me) I tend to freak out a little. Solid advice is always so hard to come by, I’m grateful to those who know their stuff on this forum. Petri thanks you ALL!

 

[ridgebax1]

I just want to reinforce not giving human medications to any animal except by the direction of a veterinarian. I work for the Pittsburgh Poison Center and deal with calls all the time about dogs or cats getting into their human's medications. Some are OK and others are not. Tylenol is not given to dogs or cats as it cannot be metabolized properly and can cause irreversible liver damage. It can do the same in humans if too much is taken at one time or even over a period of several days. Just because something is sold over the counter does not mean it can't kill you. NSAIDS like ibuprofen or naproxyn cannot be given to animals either. Many food humans eat are toxic to animals. Some plants that are toxic to dogs and cats can be eaten by our chams, such as pothos.

Anyway I am glad your little one does not need surgery and please follow the dosing instructions for his pain med. I was going to suggest temporarily moving him to a much smaller and heavily planted cage, especially if no one is there to keep an eye on him. That way if he fell he would be less likely to get another injury. Good Luck.

 

[jajeanpierre]

. Some plants that are toxic to dogs and cats can be eaten by our chams, such as pothos.

I'm curious about your claim that Pothos is safe for chameleons. Where did you find the research that supports that pothos is safe for chameleons to eat?

Pothos is not on any "safe-plant" list I can find for any animal except on chameleon lists/forums. It is listed as toxic for humans, dogs, cats and birds. While chameleon keepers feel Pothos is safe, I don't see them using its close relative Philodendron. They both cause the same problems for the same reasons in other animals and humans. Why not chameleons?

I asked my avian vet, who has a very large reptile practice as well, about the toxicity of Pothos since I have a veiled who eats EVERYTHING--dirt, plants, even rocks and pieces of wood if he can get them. He advised not putting anything in his enclosure except something super safe like Hibiscus.

He also said that basically, the safe-plant or toxic-plant lists for pets were really just extrapolations from other research on other species. The research would have been done on animals/people that have an economic value, and then the results extrapolated to other species. For example, there are no studies on the nutritional requirements of parrots. All recommended nutrition levels are taken from poultry research, which explains the stunted macaws being raised in captivity.

I suspect Pothos is safe for most chameleons simply because they won't eat it or won't eat enough to cause any problems.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Vet Update:

Finally took Petri to see the vet. Unfortunately there is nothing they can do for his leg, because of the location of the break on this thigh bone being so close to his back hip, they would have to tape up his whole back and that would make him almost immobile. His best advice is to leave him alone as much as possible, it will take 3-4 months to heal. He said two possible things could happen, the bone reattaches itself or it creates a new segment in the leg. Either way he said Petri is very strong and healthy, he still has a good grip and can use all the muscles in the leg and foot. He will adapt to the broken leg and heal just fine.

That's good news.

I once scraped off the road a 3-month old puppy who was trying really hard to die after being hit by a car. I took him to my vet to be euthanized. Imagine my shock when I went into the vet's a couple of days later to pay for the bill to find that the stupid vet had--without consulting me--x-rayed, put on a cast, vaccinated and wormed with THE most expensive wormer possible. I was presented with a bill of about $1000 for a stray pit bull puppy I had no place for. I stupidly paid for it and took the puppy home. He had a cast on from his elbow to his toes.

Many cast changes and x-rays later, the cast came off but the puppy was not using it's leg. At this point, I actually looked at the original x-rays with my new vet. His radius and ulna (the two bones of the fore arm below the elbow) had been fractured into a bunch of itty bitty pieces, more than I could count. It should have been surgically put back together but the vet (that I had fired) was close to bankruptcy and knew I would never agree to surgery if she asked. Heck, I wouldn't have agreed to x-rays if she had asked. The cast held the leg sort of in the general shape of a leg.

What was really disturbing was that we found a complete fracture of the humerus, the bone above the elbow. It actually healed without being immobilized. The bone overlapped itself and healed. I have no idea how it could, because right under that unsupported break--two free floating pieces of bone!--was a great heavy cast he was dragging around. I cried when I saw what he went through.

Your Petie will heal up just fine, as long as his calcium levels are good.

 

[Djborx]

Good luck Petri!

 

[mvad]

I'm positive Petri will make a full recovery and have a great life. Good luck on his rehabilitation. Having a responsible owner who obviously cares is a big plus to his situation.

 

[eat2muchrice]

Thanks! I might have to rename Petri to Gimpie

 

[ridgebax1]

I'm curious about your claim that Pothos is safe for chameleons. Where did you find the research that supports that pothos is safe for chameleons to eat?

Pothos is not on any "safe-plant" list I can find for any animal except on chameleon lists/forums. It is listed as toxic for humans, dogs, cats and birds. While chameleon keepers feel Pothos is safe, I don't see them using its close relative Philodendron. They both cause the same problems for the same reasons in other animals and humans. Why not chameleons?

I asked my avian vet, who has a very large reptile practice as well, about the toxicity of Pothos since I have a veiled who eats EVERYTHING--dirt, plants, even rocks and pieces of wood if he can get them. He advised not putting anything in his enclosure except something super safe like Hibiscus.

He also said that basically, the safe-plant or toxic-plant lists for pets were really just extrapolations from other research on other species. The research would have been done on animals/people that have an economic value, and then the results extrapolated to other species. For example, there are no studies on the nutritional requirements of parrots. All recommended nutrition levels are taken from poultry research, which explains the stunted macaws being raised in captivity.

I suspect Pothos is safe for most chameleons simply because they won't eat it or won't eat enough to cause any problems.

Epipremnum aureum or golden pothos, devil's ivy, pothos is a staple in live planted tanks. I really do not want to debate this here. My point is that different plants can be toxic to some animals and not to others. Given the size comparison of chameleons to dogs (who eat anything indiscriminately and often in large amounts) or cats perhaps it is dose related. Chams do not eat enough to cause symptoms.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Epipremnum aureum or golden pothos, devil's ivy, pothos is a staple in live planted tanks. I really do not want to debate this here. My point is that different plants can be toxic to some animals and not to others. Given the size comparison of chameleons to dogs (who eat anything indiscriminately and often in large amounts) or cats perhaps it is dose related. Chams do not eat enough to cause symptoms.

My veiled takes great chunks out of plants.

You are suggesting Pothos is safe, why not philodendron? Same compounds that are poisonous to other animals.

Seriously, I read on these chameleon forums that Pothos is safe and I question, where did that information come from?

 

[ridgebax1]

Yes a large number of people keep pothos in with their chameleons but how that particular plant ended up on the safe list I do not know. As I understand it for my job at the poison center is that the culprit is calcium oxalate, which is in the sap of the leaves. Actually most plants with a milky white sap are considered toxic and I do not know off the top of my head if it is all related to calcium oxalate or another substance. My suspicion is that it may be dose related. One plant may have a greater concentration of this substance than another. It may also be that the chameleon physiology has evolved in such a way that it can tolerate this type of exposure.

Dogs cannot eat chocolate, onions, grapes or raisins but people can. Also tomatoes and potatoes belong to the same family as Deadly Nightshade, but they have parts that are poisonous and parts that are not which we eat. I suspect that research was trial and error. Someone (a long time ago) ate it, got sick and/or died, thus no more eating of that plant. Perhaps this would be an excellent thread on it's own as we seem to have hijacked the OP's post. There are many expert keepers here that could answer such a question if it was posted on its own.

 

[joyjoydorf]

Thanks. No I did not see him fall, I was cleaning his cage and asked the wife to watch him while he was free ranging on a plant. The wife left him to watch the kids, when I asked her how Petri was doing, she checked and said he was now behind the dresser climbing a power cable....being hard to grip I think he fell from the ceramic vase, it is only about 2-3 ft high so he must of just landed really wrong.



That is one of the things I'm afraid of, honestly $300-$600 surgery on a $30 chameleon..........it would also increase the chances of infection and cause huge amount of stress. I love him and all but unless he is going to die, he is going to have to walk with a limp. Sorry I sound so cruel, but I have to be responsible for my family first, like saving and paying for the kids pre-school. Good news is that he is still eating! That is going to be the most important thing for his recovery.

MY vet said that surgery is not recommended because of their frailty. I noticed yesterday that my Cham's front leg is broken. I know he fell. He is eating but not climbing and when he tries to he doesn't get far and seems to get tired and just lets go.

 

[kinyonga]

This is an old thread. Please start a thread of your own. If your chameleon broke its leg falling then I would recommend that you answer the questions in this thread so we can check your husbandry...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/