Blackmarket Sydney - dealing in deadly dogs

[Pure]

No need to. I wasn't directing that at you. Just making the point that no matter how friendly the animal is, one still has to remember it is a pit bull and should be treated as such. You wouldn't leave a friendly 20 ft python alone with an infant. Dogs should be treated no different.

 

[BrianIntheNo]

"one still has to remember it is a pit bull and should be treated as such. You wouldn't leave a friendly 20 ft python alone with an infant. Dogs should be treated no different."

i totally agree with you pure, we all love are dogs but we need to remember they are still animals and not human members of the family and cant be trusted as such.

SAY NO TO BSL!!!

*also Pitbulls brains dont get to big for there skull...that is a total myth!!! Just like people that say they have locking jaws, this is also wrong.

 

[joelnormanotto]

No need to. I wasn't directing that at you. Just making the point that no matter how friendly the animal is, one still has to remember it is a pit bull and should be treated as such. You wouldn't leave a friendly 20 ft python alone with an infant. Dogs should be treated no different.

Thats a really good point

 

[kenya]

No need to. I wasn't directing that at you. Just making the point that no matter how friendly the animal is, one still has to remember it is a pit bull and should be treated as such. You wouldn't leave a friendly 20 ft python alone with an infant. Dogs should be treated no different.

No dog should be left with an infant, regardless of breed. Your statement should read: "Just making the point that no matter how friendly the animal is, one still has to remember it is a dog and should be treated as such. You wouldn't leave a friendly 20 ft python alone with an infant. Dogs should be treated no different."

That being said, the American pit bull terrier is a fantastic family dog and has one of the highest levels of bite inhibition towards people thanks to their decades of being specifically bred to NEVER bite people. If a dog bit a person, especially a fighting line dog, it was culled immediately. These dogs were bred to fight each other, not to maul people. Many of the develop dog aggression upon reaching sexual maturity- this is totally normal and should be expected. It is easily managed by an experienced owner using crate and rotate methods and not leave dogs unsupervised. A "pit bull attack" is always the result of bad people and bad breeding.

By the way, any low, wide chested, big headed dog (usually "blue" in color) is not full pit- these dogs were crossed with staffies and American bulldogs (two related but different breeds) and mastiffs in the 50's or so to produce a better fighting dog (bulkier). They have been selectively bred to be large, blue, and ridiculous since then and it just gets worse. A real pit bull is a nice, taller, lean dog. The result of the outcrossing has not only been the crazy and extreme body types (which are horribly unattractive, unhealthy and not at all what a pit bull is supposed to be), but it has also done the horrible combination of mixing a dog with really high bite inhibition towards people (pit bulls) and a dog with really low bit inhibition towards people (mastiffs, a guarding breed). This results in a dog with unpredictable and shaky temperament.

A well bred pit bull is a fantastic dog and one of the best breeds to own for a single dog family with children. The media blows things out of proportion all the time- it will always have a breed that it picks on for a decade or so. BSL is simply BS and it has been proven time and time again that it is ineffective. On top of that, dogs that attack are almost always unneutered sexually mature males that have been chained for months without interaction and exercise and have severe boundary frustration (via being a social animal in isolation but seeing other animals (people, dogs, whatever) go by their fence daily)

Ugh, I think I have said enough for now, dog nerd going away....

 

[jojackson]

If a dog bit a person, especially a fighting line dog, it was culled immediately.

And so it should be. Unfortunately not every idiot with two dogs is so meticulous, backyard yahoo breeders in particular. You cant legislate against stupidy.

A "pit bull attack" is always the result of bad people and bad breeding.

Yes exactly! The owners!

There should be no 'fighting line dogs' in the first place, its despicable to use their natural instincts to pit one against another for our sick $$ making entertainment! Period.

On top of that, dogs that attack are almost always unneutered sexually mature males that have been chained for months without interaction and exercise and have severe boundary frustration (via being a social animal in isolation but seeing other animals (people, dogs, whatever) go by their fence daily)

And some are just bastard phsycopathic mongrels due to their owners treatment, training or /and lack of it, and decide one sunny morning to nip out and chew a toddlers face off !

Its not the animals fault, its the owners yes, but that dosent change the facts. Im betting not many pitbull diehards have had their own child mauled by one. Id be happy to hear from them if their attitude hasnt significantly changed since.
If banning the breed is what it takes to fight idiots who breed and make these dogs aggressive for entertainment or ego, Then so be it, be pitbull or shepard or whatever other breed , so treated.
If you treat animals like that, you dont deserve them in my book. Yes, its unfair to the few reponsible owners, but what can you do? Theres no realistic way to enforce any animal law where domestic dogs and cats are concerned anyway, unless you can get them for simply having them, but the law wont find out till it mauls a kid, bit late then. I suppose voters wanted
none in their state. Other than banning them from all but rural lands will dissapoint just as many.

I bet these people (whos fault this clearly is) arnt too keen on pitbulls now.

Infant mauled to death by family dog [Pit Bull Alert] August 17, 2009

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2318443/posts

 

[lisa h]

.......
Ugh, I think I have said enough for now, dog nerd going away....

Nice to meet another dog nerd on this list!

 

[kenya]

And so it should be. Unfortunately not every idiot with two dogs is so meticulous, backyard yahoo breeders in particular. You cant legislate against stupidy.

You can make stupidity very expensive and put more effort into educating the average pet owner, though

Yes exactly! The owners!

There should be no 'fighting line dogs' in the first place, its despicable to use their natural instincts to pit one against another for our sick $$ making entertainment! Period.[/QUOTE]

When I say "fighting line dogs", I actually meant the true to form old style American pit bull terrier. Fighting, though not a good thing by today's moral standards (or my own, for that matter), is a dark part of the breed's history, but an important part to remember in to their temperament and personality. The harsh environment and physical demands that these dogs went through forged and incredible, versatile, sound working animal. A well bred pit bull today will still have the innate "gameness" the breed was made to have, regardless if they are fought or not. Along with that, they have the awesome personality, tenacity, and loyalty to humans that they are known for. These dogs could NEVER bite a human because the dog men had to be able to handle them safely in the middle of a fight. Idiots today that fight their dogs to be macho usually have the chunky, horrendous blue wide and low dogs that were outcrossed with mollosser breeds in decades past. They aren't even the same dog as the APBT and it is an insult to call them "pit bulls".

And some are just bastard phsycopathic mongrels due to their owners treatment, training or /and lack of it, and decide one sunny morning to nip out and chew a toddlers face off !

If by "some" you mean the blue, wide, low dogs that are commonly referred to as "pit bulls" but are in fact untrained, undersocialized dogs of mixed American bulldog, mastiff and staffordshire bull terrier heritage, then I would be inclined to agree. A true bred old style APBT has the highest bite inhibition towards people and an incredible tolerance level for pain and annoyances (such as a child pulling ears, tails, poking eyes etc). Dogs don't "just snap". There is always something else, even if it goes unnoticed, that pushes them over the limit. It can be pain, a hidden medical issue, border frustration, and many other things, but there is always a reason that a dog uses the last resort of biting, even if it is not obvious to us.

Its not the animals fault, its the owners yes, but that dosent change the facts. Im betting not many pitbull diehards have had their own child mauled by one.

I'm betting not either since most "pitbull diehards" have a clue and wouldn't leave any dog (of any breed) alone unsupervised with a child. Any good dog owner knows better.

If banning the breed is what it takes to fight idiots who breed and make these dogs aggressive for entertainment or ego, Then so be it, be pitbull or shepard or whatever other breed , so treated.
If you treat animals like that, you dont deserve them in my book. Yes, its unfair to the few reponsible owners, but what can you do? Theres no realistic way to enforce any animal law where domestic dogs and cats are concerned anyway, unless you can get them for simply having them, but the law wont find out till it mauls a kid, bit late then. I suppose voters wanted
none in their state. Other than banning them from all but rural lands will dissapoint just as many.

I'm sorry to disagree, but this is totally flawed logic. Banning a breed does not stop dog fighting; the whole article posted shows this. If people are going to have fun by breaking the law and fighting dogs, why would they care about breaking the law to have the breed in the first place? BSL does not work. There is plenty of evidence that shows this here: http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/Legislative/LegislativeIndex.htm and here: http://hubpages.com/hub/Breed_Specific_Legislation and many other places on the web.

 

[jojackson]

LOl, its not my logic Kenya , my states legislators.

Banning a breed does not stop dog fighting

No of course it wont, but those fewer dogs is that many fewer fights in backyard pits, that many fewer toddlers or anyone else getting chewed like mincemeant walking past.
Im happy with that.

More needs to be done to address dog fighting in particular.

You can make stupidity very expensive

Yes but it's quite expensive to do so and ofcourse, being after the fact, pointless since the deed is done.
Then you have voters, primarily parents or the elderly saying why is this allowed to happen when they are still attacked by these dogs. Its too late now my child has had her face torn off and is horribly misfigured and mentally scarrred for life, or a 'gentle grandmother is mauled to death.

I guess the logic is to simply keep tyhe numbers of incidents down and appease the voters.
As a parent, and as a guy none too keen to be half eaten alive by some dickhead macho mans dog,
Some action is better than none, even if its the cheapest option.

 

[pssh]

Small dogs can be horrible. I was walking by my neighbors house once and their fluffy little dog started to chase me and bit my ankle. So I kicked it... Not too hard, but enough to make it stop, and the owners started yelling at me.

Anywho, my cousin has a blue staffy-pit mix and he is the biggest whimp when it comes to other mean dogs. Barks then hides, barks then hides. He's a cutie, but his strength has to be admired. I was sitting on a chair and he got overly excited tried to jump on my lap and the chair, him, and I went flying!

What I find interesting is that ex pit fighters would tell people in interviews and what not, that finding dogs with the mentality to be able to fight was very difficult. They would say they were lucky if one in a large litter of pups could fight. So, these breeders are taking their best fighters and often breed them, all too often selling extra pups and causing some of the really dangerous qualities to re-enter the breeds lines. And though breeding isn't the only factor, it is a big factor and if someone was looking for a puppy and accidentally bought a fighting pup, an attack is just waiting to happen unless the dog was socialized perfectly.

But also, a lot of the most popular breeds of dogs, like labs and golden retrievers, are being bred carelessly and causing these same biting and fighting traits into the dog. Which is why with any breed, care must be taken when buying one.

 

[jojackson]

Let me be clear that any kind of dog can be so mistreated, misbred, aggressive and infact plenty are. Personally I dont care what breed they are, but common sense, regardless of of your favoritism of any breed, tells you that big powerful animals can potentially do far more serious damage than others, there's no getting around that no matter how you butter the bread.
Some (too many) people and animals dont mix, it dosent matter what kind of animal either, as we all know.
As far my my state and my country is concerned, Id be happy to see cats, and most dogs and some birds ,no longer kept as pets, they dont belong here, cats are unsuitable domestics, and as I said earlier, (dogs) you cant legislate against stupidity and ignorance.
Id rather see the average pet here become a reptile or native pet! A lizard or snake, or possum etc dosent attack folk for any reason, cause car accidents on roads, kill others pets, cost a fortune each year to impound/destroy, foul pavements, or cause neighbourhood disputes over noise, neither do they kill wildlife.

If we cant stop stupid people keeping/mistreating dogs, then we can atleast make it hard to keep potentiallly lethal ones.
Thank God nobody in australia owns monkeys/apes, big cats, bears and the like!
Im sure there would those who'd also claim, pure bears are wonderful placid creatures and the 'bad' ones must be crossbreds/bad lines etc that their bear wouldnt kill anyone,....until it did! But they would still stubbornly want to keep them! Thats humanity for ya, arrogant and selfish.

You can only predict an animals behaviour, up to a point, after which , its 'all bets are off', as proven by so many stories of 'perfect pets' suddenly attacking , with or without provocation. The larger and more potentially lethal the animal, coupled with complete lack of legislative control on breeding, caging, control etc, the more dangerous it is in the hands of an idiot.

I want to know how many owners of large dangerous dogs (regardless of breed or claimed 'traits' or lineage), would like some bears or big cats next door? maybe wolves, 500 pound gorilla? What will you say to their owners if you want them gone? Will you except your own dog excuses?
Why ban them if some folk do the right thing, is it fair to them? better for the community?
Its all about perspective!

edit: missed this before....

You wouldn't leave a friendly 20 ft python alone with an infant. Dogs should be treated no different."

Agreed, though this is not the only way a kid ends up with no face, dogs escape, jump fences, break leads, and in some cases are simply allowed to wander. Some kids taunt dogs, even the ones that own them, but just as many are innocent victims.
Even if your dog is confined to your property (not caged) and a kid climbs the fence to retreive a ball etc, an attack is still your responsibility as the owner by law in most cases, not to mention your moral responsibility if you live near kids and still want to own
a large poentially dangerous dog of any stripe. Your dog might love your kids, but dont assume that means any child is safe with it.

Hell, why have a big campaign to protect the rights of dog owners? Some folk dont even deserve their children or treat them right/responsibly!