Black Spots on my Panther

[Andee]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Panther hybrid, male, and 15 months. Since he was 4 months old
Handling - On occasion, about once every two weeks.
Feeding - Right now roaches (dubias and horseshoe crab), crickets, superworms, and butter worms. 6 roaches every other day one type of worm depending on size. 2 pm? With alfafa, spirulina, cranberries, almonds, brewers yeast, and fresh fruits (mostly oranges) and veggies
Supplements - Reptical and Herptivit, Calcium no D3 every feeding, Calcium with D3 twice a month and Herptivit twice a month
Watering - I use an auto-mist system, I mist every 3 hours for 60 mins, yes I see him drink, will hand mist once a day for 2 minutes
Fecal Description - White urates, blackish-brown fecal... yes he has been tested and came up clean

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen with plastic on one side
Lighting - I use a tube uvb I think it's reptisun or something similair... ummm I use a halogen 75 watt basking bulb. Schedule is 8:00 am to 8:00 pm
Temperature - Lowest I don't know, Highest I am pretty sure is still 84 degrees F in the basking area, and the mid-level is somewhere around 75
Humidity - 65% but climbs to 75% when misted, I am using a plastic cover on one side and live plants to keep the humidity up
Plants - Yes, camillia bush and an scheffelera
Placement -In my bedroom, no high traffic area or vents/windows... The height of the cage is like 3.5 feet off the ground
Location - San Luis Obispo CA

Current Problem - There are black patches appearing on Ryker's skin. It is not his coloring as it doesn't change with his pajamas at night. They almost look like severe burns but he hasn't been screen climbing and they aren't hard like I expect burns to be. Plus he can't get super close to his basking light unless he screen climbs and even then it's still lifted a couple inches away from the screen so I don't think he would be that burned by it. ... I dunno what it is. I can provide pictures if needed... He's not acting off, any help would be greatly appreciated, I am so worried. I am planning on taking him to the vet next week if need be.

 

[MelissaB]

How are you measuring your temperatures? I would get some sort of thermometer, so you know exactly how hot it is at the basking spot. If you can take a picture of the area that's black on your guy, that would be helpful, too.

 

[Devokid]

A picture would be really helpful.

 

[carol5208]

Yes please post a pic and preferably a close up of the spots.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Yes pictures would help us determine whether or not it is a burn. Everything you are doing sounds great though.

 

[Andee]

I'm measuring my temps using a digital themometer with a probe, though I've been debating getting a temp gun. I will get a picture as soon as he's done shedding in one of the spots. He literally just started shedding today >.<

 

[Andee]

Ok sorry about the lack of pics, the spots are taking forever to shed so I just ended up taking him into the vet since the spots seemed to be growing slightly. What I learned at the vet was this... He has some pretty severe burns, they are almost like blisters when she scraped the dead skin away. Though the smaller burns seem to be healing well she gave me ointment for the larger and more severe burns to help with healing and deter infection.

But the problem is, is that the basking area only really gets to 82 degrees according to my thermometer... Never the less I changed the bulb to a house hold bulb of 60 watts, instead of the sunglo halogen. I just can't believe this happened >.< I was almost certain it was a bruise I just didn't know how it could've happened. But as a burn I still don't know how it has happened, I have the lamp elevated and unless the thermometer is totally wrong, he couldn't have gotten burned where he did by screen climbing because it's on his shoulders. I just wish I could have stopped it.

I am thinking I should invest in a temp gun. Do you guys have any suggestions, on getting a good one?

He's so upset with me right now, he got so mad at the vet's with all the handling I have never seen him so mad. Hopefully he'll be destressed by tomorrow so I can start putting the ointment on.

 

[symphonica]

I also recommend a silver, aluminum clamp dome from the hardware store ($10). Those black domes from pet stores get really hot, and cost like $30. The aluminum doesn't get hot to the touch.

I have a digital thermometer, but also use an old-school, glass aquarium thermometer with the req liquid in it that goes up and down. It's based on simple, ancient, chemistry and physics principles, and not computers that can go awry, so it's usually pretty accurate. Once in a while, I use them as a means of comparison to make sure my digital is accurate.

Do you have enough vines/plants/branches where he can get high enough to the top of the cage when he wants to bask and warm up, without having to hang upside down on the screen of the cage? You should have enough vines so that he can get to every spot of the cage without ever having to use the actual screen of the cage - top, bottom, right, left, corners.

 

[Andee]

He's got tons of plants and vines so he can get away, at least in my opinion he does. He has vines around the bottom of the cage, top, and middle. Along with a thick schefflera plant and a camillea bush to give him coverage. Though I need to go in a prune some of the camillea. I will definitely go to home depot and find one of those aluminum domes for him. Thanks for the idea on that I never even knew they existed. How do you attach the aquarium fish thermometer to the basking spot to check?

Thanks so much <3 I just don't want the burns to get infected, that's my biggest thing

 

[Kate]

Don't beat yourself up about it. Accidents happen and we feel bad when they do. You now have the answers and are going to make sure it doesn't happen again. Before I joined the forum Popeyes ceramic bulb blew and I wasn't aware of it till he became dark because he was cold. It took ages to get temps right with a new one which resulted in him burning his belly. That was over two years ago and he still has a small area of discoloured skin to remind me I was a bad mum.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

Light bulbs can really put off the heat up close. I was cleaning my temp gun the other night and put it up to a CLF bulb that I use above my work/cleaning area. I was suprised to see a reading of 104 degree 4 inches away from it.

 

[symphonica]

My 100W bulb was at 118-degrees two inches from it. I have a huge free range so I need it, but I make sure there's absolutely no way they can get anywhere close to the bulb.

The aquarium heater, just lay it on the top of the cage, underneath where the heat lamp is. Then, put your digital thermometer in the same spot and compare the two readings. The aquarium thermometer is not meant to be a full-time thing. Just once is a while as a standard to compare your digital one to, to make sure the digital is performing accurately.

 

[Carlton]

Light bulbs can really put off the heat up close. I was cleaning my temp gun the other night and put it up to a CLF bulb that I use above my work/cleaning area. I was suprised to see a reading of 104 degree 4 inches away from it.

I think one of several reasons new keepers don't realize just how harsh a regular light bulb can be for a cham is that they try to judge the temp using their own hand. The light feels warm, not hot. BUT...what feels warm to a human (with a maintained body temp of about 98.6F) is totally different for a lizard. The best way to judge the temp of a basking area is to measure the surface temp of the basking perch right under the light, and check the skin temp of your cham with a non-contact temp gun.

 

[Andee]

Thanks guys for being so nice about this, ^^ And I am definitely getting both a temp gun and an aluminum dome. Possibly getting an aquarium thermometer too ^^. His burns are already looking better with the ointment I am putting on them ^^ I feel so much better.

 

[Kzinn]

Our Cham was looking beautiful up until a day ago I noticed it looked like her stress spots weren't going away... Are these burns?

 

[ParabuthusKing]

I also recommend a silver, aluminum clamp dome from the hardware store ($10). Those black domes from pet stores get really hot, and cost like $30. The aluminum doesn't get hot to the touch.

Not to be nitpicky, but just so the humans don't get a severe burn as well, even aluminum reflectors from the hardware store get VERY HOT. Additionally, at least the ZooMed Deep Dome ( which is what I use on adult panther cages) have a "highly polished aluminum inside the dome greatly increases UVA and UVB output". Now for my money with an animal with such specific needs for lighting indoors in captivity, I will spend an extra $10 for a high quality reflector that is also versatile. I do have quite a few "hardware store" reflectors as I have been keeping reptiles for over 20 years, long before it became popular or mainstream with so many commercial products specific to reptiles ( which btw I am EXTREMELY grateful for) IMO hardware reflectors work great for ceramic heat emitters, etc, just not my preference for chameleon lighting fixtures.

As far as physics goes..
Specific heat capacity of aluminum = 0.91 kJ/kg K
Specific heat capacity of carbon steel = 0.49 kJ/kg K
Thermal conductivity of aluminum = 205 W/(m.K)
Thermal conductivity of carbon steel = 54 W/(m.K)
Concluding, aluminum can hold more heat and transfers more rapidly than carbon steel.. And best of luck with your chameleon!! My sympathy for both you and him and I wish the very best for his recovery!! )

 

[symphonica]

Not to be nitpicky, but just so the humans don't get a severe burn as well, even aluminum reflectors from the hardware store get VERY HOT. Additionally, at least the ZooMed Deep Dome ( which is what I use on adult panther cages) have a "highly polished aluminum inside the dome greatly increases UVA and UVB output". Now for my money with an animal with such specific needs for lighting indoors in captivity, I will spend an extra $10 for a high quality reflector that is also versatile. I do have quite a few "hardware store" reflectors as I have been keeping reptiles for over 20 years, long before it became popular or mainstream with so many commercial products specific to reptiles ( which btw I am EXTREMELY grateful for) IMO hardware reflectors work great for ceramic heat emitters, etc, just not my preference for chameleon lighting fixtures.



As far as physics goes..

Specific heat capacity of aluminum = 0.91 kJ/kg K

Specific heat capacity of carbon steel = 0.49 kJ/kg K

Thermal conductivity of aluminum = 205 W/(m.K)

Thermal conductivity of carbon steel = 54 W/(m.K)

Concluding, aluminum can hold more heat and transfers more rapidly than carbon steel.. And best of luck with your chameleon!! My sympathy for both you and him and I wish the very best for his recovery!! )

These are to be used for heat, not UVB. I mean, I guess you could use it for a coiled UVB bulb, but most people are aware that T8s and T5s are much more efficient and of higher quality when it comes to UVB output. If you want to spend your money on quality, pay $10 extra for Arcadia T5HO bulbs and ditch whatever UVB bulbs you're using in dome reflectors. Or ATI SunPower fixtures if you want good reflectors. And I'd prefer if my heat source weren't reflected and dispersed. I prefer heat to be localized to the basking spot.

I use a 200w bulb in a 10.5" dome rated for up to 300w for my chams and have never had a hot dome. Yes, the socket gets hot, but the rim where the cham could touch has never become hot. That's really the only place that matters because they can't climb the smooth surface of the dome, no matter how much they try. I don't give a rat's butt about humans if they're not careful (or smart) enough to seriously get burnt by any lighting fixture - not sure how you'd even manage it. Sometimes, it's not about the science, but about experience (hence why this forum exists in the first place). Test it out - get the Al reflector I'm referring to, and a black one from the pet store, and let me know which ones gets hotter to the touch where your cham can reach.