Billy's not feeling well

[Billy Bow Legg]

this video show's how he is walking. now help!!

Ok gang I have a 6 month old veiled, I have posting a few pic's

here he is freshly molting about a month ago. he was healthy here

the back legs are now doing this its like he cant find a place to grip. when in his enclosure not so healthy here.

view of his front leggs while they look normal they are not he has no strength.

I give him a luke warm water bath twice a day offer cricket and meal worms, powderr every other meal I think he has fallen and hurt/broke something in his chest I have found him many time n his cricket box ( free to eat as he pleases, before injury) he has not molted since the 1st pic's molt about a month ago

 

[LindsayG]

I can't even watch ur video. I want to scream right now. Can you not see his legs are broken!!? Take him to a vet NOW.

 

[GrimCamel]

Your chameleon has Metabolic Bone Disease. His legs are broken. It must be very painful for him.
You could cover up the ground in his enclosure with a towel in case he'll be falling which he probably will if he tries to climb.
Go to the vet ASAP

How does your supplementing look like and what kind of lighting do you use?

Edit: Do not bath your chameleon. Mist him in his enclosure but don't bath him. He is a tree living creature not a lake living or even ground living

 

[jcarlsen]

You need to take him to a vet immediately. Do you you know a vet that will see chameleons around you? If not, just tell us the area you're in and I'm sure one of us can help you find a vet.

Once you've had him seen and treated by the vet, you should post your setup somewhere on here so we can see what changes you'll need to make to help him recover and prevent this in the future.

It looks like MBD, as GrimCamel has said, so unfortunately your poor guy may not fully recover from this.

 

[JaniP]

You have a very very very ill chameleon. To have metabolic bone disease that severe he has had to have had very improper care for a very long time. You make no mention of UV light, has he ever had any? He needs a vet immediately. Like, now. I couldn't make it through your video. Please do not force that poor thing to walk. How heart breaking!

 

[Onemorecast]

He all around looks like classic horrible husbandry, dehydrated MBD just awful. Id love to see what his enclosure looks like. Also if you plan on ever buting a cham again id do some serious research. That poor guy is literally dying each day. Fahckkkk

 

[Onemorecast]

They need a constant dripper it water, meal worms are junk as a staple diet and there are tons of other bugs to choose. His food should be dusted w calcium WITHOUT D3 at almost every feeding, he should get calcium WITH D3 every 2 weeks dusted and s multivitamin dusting every 2 weeks but not at same time as D3 or any other powders. They need a uvb bulb of 5.0 they only last about 6 months, lights should be on for 12 hours and off for 12. His basking spit should be able to get to 85 mid of cage should be high 70°'s and bottom should be 70-72°...im beyond angry. I wish sellers and petstores would do some reading and inform buyers just a bit, chams are not iguanas...iguanas still will suffer from MBD but they are pretty close to bulletproof in my experience. Just because somebody has owned a cornsnake doesnt mean they have the means to care for a cham. May not me owners fault fully but MBD is slow, signs should have tipped you off months and months ago

 

[LindsayG]

I'm so angry about this right now! I don't understand how anyone can let their animal get so bad that it's limbs are broken and twisted and can no longer function properly and they just think, "O, gee, he walks funny. Look guys, look at how funny he walks, maybe some things wrong"? I'm also incredibly offended by your username. Your poor boy is not "bow legged", he's BROKEN LEGGED! I hate the fact that you're making a joke out of his suffering. I can't get the pic of you forcing him to walk on broken legs out of my head. It makes my skin crawl.

 

[MissLissa]

Your chameleon is in need of emergency veterinary care. Today. Now. He is in immense amounts of pain: chams can't really get off their feet, so imagine being forced to stand when both your legs are shattered. If you've ever broken a bone, I'm sure you can imagine what I'm talking about. Just because reptiles do not cry out or flinch etc does not mean they don't feel pain: there are a lot of studies that show they certainly do, they just express it differently than warmblooded animals.

There is nothing you can do for this chameleon on your own, he is too far gone. He needs a vet, right away to help stabilize those legs and to get some injections of calcium, pain medication, etc.into him- or barring that, humane euthanasia. It's a very long, expensive road to bring back a cham from metabolic bone disorder, and there is absolutely no guarantee of success. Euthanasia is at least a more painless way to go than slowly having all his bones shatter inside him as his body steadily leaches calcium from them. I'm sure you had no idea what was going on: there is so much bad information out there on cham care that it's easier to miss the mark than to get it right. I wish that access to solid, reliable information was easier to find, and to recognize when people did find it.

I've worked years at vet clinics: we've had people come in with dogs- dogs, which are at least familiar in our society- with badly broken legs that the owner thought was just a lump or a bruise, shattered jaws they thought were dental disease, and a "simple rash" that ended up with the dog's skin mostly sloughing off. If people can get it so wrong with something as familiar and mammalian as a dog, I can certainly see how it would happen with a chameleon.

I'm so sorry that your cham is in such a bad state. I hope that you meant to do nothing but good for him. Unfortunately, these creatures sometimes need better than our best.

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry to see your chameleon is in such poor shape. It can happen when people own their first chameleon and have been given bad advice people and jumping down their throats only serves to chase them away from the forum and help for the chameleon. No matter who's fault it is the best thing is to help the person help their chameleon.

Billy Bow Legg..
This chameleon needs help asap to save it. Please take it to a vet so the vet can give it injections of calcium until the blood calcium levels are high enough again and the bones and muscles, etc are healthy again. While it is being helped its important to correct your husbandry.

Appropriate temperatures allow for proper digestion and thus indirectly play a part in nutrient absorption. For a veiled the temperatures should be in the low to mid 80'sF for this.

The chameleon needs a source of UVB light (direct sunlight or a proper UVB light bulb...most often recommended uvb bulb is the long linear Repti-sun 5.0). Exposure to the UVB light allows the chameleon to produce the D3 needed to use the calcium in the system for strong growth bones, muscles, etc.

Supplements are important too. It's recommended that you dust the insects just before feeding them to the chameleon with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings to make up for the usually poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous found in most feeder insects.

Its recommended that you dust twice a month with a phosphorous - free calcium powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving the chameleon to produce the rest of the D3 from its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues while D3 from exposure to UVB won't likely build up as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB when it wants to.

It's recommended that you dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene ( prOformed ) source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system and lead to overdoses like prEformed sources can and will leave it up to you to decide whether the chameleon needs prEformed or not.

Good luck!

 

[jcarlsen]

Guys, I'm really worried about that cham . I'm hoping we haven't heard from the OP because she did the right thing and went to the vet right away, but I'm also worried that we may never hear from her again because she read our advice to go to the vet and refuses to do it because it's not an easy fix. I've seen quite a few new chameleon owners who come here only when there's trouble because of their lack of husbandry/research :/.

Sorry, just had to vent. I hope we hear back and I hope that Billy Bow Leg does the right thing with her cham...

 

[MissLissa]

Guys, I'm really worried about that cham . I'm hoping we haven't heard from the OP because she did the right thing and went to the vet right away, but I'm also worried that we may never hear from her again because she read our advice to go to the vet and refuses to do it because it's not an easy fix. I've seen quite a few new chameleon owners who come here only when there's trouble because of their lack of husbandry/research :/.

Sorry, just had to vent. I hope we hear back and I hope that Billy Bow Leg does the right thing with her cham...

Well, I would not blame them for not coming back: a couple posts here kind of jumped down the OP's throat before they even had a chance to explain the whole situation. If that had happened to me, I'd have never come back on the forum. It's easy to judge from a position of knowledge and experience, but that doesn't help the OP or their cham much at all. We don't even know how long the OP has had this cham, or much of anything other than what is in the photos themselves. I've known too many people who've been stuck with a sick animal from an untrustworthy source- or who have trusted bad advice from people who should have known better- to jump to conclusions right away. If they truly didn't care, they would not have taken the time to post at all. Let's give them some time: they may not know how urgent a situation this is, and may not think to check for a response for a while yet.

 

[Carlton]

Well, I would not blame them for not coming back: a couple posts here kind of jumped down the OP's throat before they even had a chance to explain the whole situation. If that had happened to me, I'd have never come back on the forum. It's easy to judge from a position of knowledge and experience, but that doesn't help the OP or their cham much at all. We don't even know how long the OP has had this cham, or much of anything other than what is in the photos themselves. I've known too many people who've been stuck with a sick animal from an untrustworthy source- or who have trusted bad advice from people who should have known better- to jump to conclusions right away. If they truly didn't care, they would not have taken the time to post at all. Let's give them some time: they may not know how urgent a situation this is, and may not think to check for a response for a while yet.

Yes I have to agree. Some members reacted so strongly to the OP's pictures that it made ME squirm. How many times have we read thread starters from newbies who were set up to fail by pet shops? Should these newbies do more research before buying a cham? Certainly! But sometimes their ignorance is so great they don't question the husbandry they were fed. If we really want to help the OP we need to listen FIRST, offer our advice in a considerate way, and then wait for the result. If the OP doesn't get it or starts that chain of complaints and denials, then they are fair game IMHO. Its one thing to want to vent when we see horrible care, but be careful who gets to hear it and when. That's what PMs are for.

 

[JaniP]

Yes I have to agree. Some members reacted so strongly to the OP's pictures that it made ME squirm. How many times have we read thread starters from newbies who were set up to fail by pet shops? Should these newbies do more research before buying a cham? Certainly! But sometimes their ignorance is so great they don't question the husbandry they were fed. If we really want to help the OP we need to listen FIRST, offer our advice in a considerate way, and then wait for the result. If the OP doesn't get it or starts that chain of complaints and denials, then they are fair game IMHO. Its one thing to want to vent when we see horrible care, but be careful who gets to hear it and when. That's what PMs are for.

All true. I feel bad about my reaction. The video was really shocking and painful to see and that got the best of me.

 

[wodesorel]

The video has been removed or set to private on Facebook. I really hope no one followed them over to FB to post disparaging things. I've seen that happen elsewhere and it never ends well - for the OP, for the group, or for the animal that needs care.

 

[Onemorecast]

Luckily video was removed before I saw, if its as bad as its said to be. Typing before thinking or typing on emtion rarely ends well, sorry if my posts fall into the above

 

[Billy Bow Legg]

This was when he was small for those who are angry with me please understand that I DID DO RESEARCH!! I have had him since he was 1 month old. I feed him little crickets dusted every other meal I have added more vines, and other things. I am going to take him to a vet. no worries there. I have one about an hour away. I think he fell while I was at work. The bath I give him is only to help him absorb water. He does " hunt" and mealworms and crickets are dusted every other feeding. this is PER VET before i got him!!! I am sorry some of you are feeling bad and are upset. I am n tears myself and as soon as I can afford and able to make the drive HE WILL GO. BUT AS TALKING WITH THE VET AND EMAILING THE LAST DAY N HALF. THERE IS NOT MUCH THE VET CAN DO EXRAY WILL ONLY SHOW WHAT HAS BEEN BROKEN as far as his long term care he will get what he needs. I have over 300 into this baby. He has all the light in the daytime and the driper plant as well. i have posted picks from when he was in good health. and of his enclousre that my husband made for him.

I have all the right lighting, the right temp's the right food and supliments. this was a case of he fell! not neglect. and yes again he will be taken n for xrays. I know the video was hart breaking i cried seeing him this way. I cannot stress enough how bad i feel that i cannot get him in today but i asure you i have sent this video, and pic to the vet ( who will take over his care)


thanks every one for the information. good and angry are understood. again I am very upset at myself for letting him have so much space so young. I will keep you all posted!

 

[Billy Bow Legg]

Sorry to see your chameleon is in such poor shape. It can happen when people own their first chameleon and have been given bad advice people and jumping down their throats only serves to chase them away from the forum and help for the chameleon. No matter who's fault it is the best thing is to help the person help their chameleon.

Billy Bow Legg..
This chameleon needs help asap to save it. Please take it to a vet so the vet can give it injections of calcium until the blood calcium levels are high enough again and the bones and muscles, etc are healthy again. While it is being helped its important to correct your husbandry.

Appropriate temperatures allow for proper digestion and thus indirectly play a part in nutrient absorption. For a veiled the temperatures should be in the low to mid 80'sF for this.

The chameleon needs a source of UVB light (direct sunlight or a proper UVB light bulb...most often recommended uvb bulb is the long linear Repti-sun 5.0). Exposure to the UVB light allows the chameleon to produce the D3 needed to use the calcium in the system for strong growth bones, muscles, etc.

Supplements are important too. It's recommended that you dust the insects just before feeding them to the chameleon with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings to make up for the usually poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous found in most feeder insects.

Its recommended that you dust twice a month with a phosphorous - free calcium powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving the chameleon to produce the rest of the D3 from its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues while D3 from exposure to UVB won't likely build up as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB when it wants to.

It's recommended that you dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene ( prOformed ) source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system and lead to overdoses like prEformed sources can and will leave it up to you to decide whether the chameleon needs prEformed or not.

Good luck!

Ty for your input!!! all of these that you mention I have done prior to getting him n july. I have made a new post and update.

 

[MissLissa]

I have all the right lighting, the right temp's the right food and supliments. this was a case of he fell! not neglect. and yes again he will be taken n for xrays. I know the video was hart breaking i cried seeing him this way. I cannot stress enough how bad i feel that i cannot get him in today but i asure you i have sent this video, and pic to the vet ( who will take over his care)
thanks every one for the information. good and angry are understood. again I am very upset at myself for letting him have so much space so young. I will keep you all posted!

I'm so glad you are taking him to the vet! Thank you for caring so much about your chameleon. I promise that this forum is usually very supportive and helpful: I've gotten a lot of excellent advice from keepers who've had chams for decades. I think we all just feel very strongly about the happiness of the animals we love, and sometimes that can overwhelm our generally good natures

Would you mind filling out the "How to ask for help" form? It will really help the experience cham keepers on here pin point what may have gone wrong. It does look like to me the care regimen for your cham may need a few tweaks in the future: all common issues, unfortunately. A lot of the information commonly available- even from some veterinarians- is just no good anymore. It looks to me like you may have gotten some poor advice from someone who should have known better. I'm so sorry!

Just copy and paste it into this thread, and fill it out as best you can. You can find the form here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

 

[GrimCamel]

This was when he was small for those who are angry with me please understand that I DID DO RESEARCH!! I have had him since he was 1 month old. I feed him little crickets dusted every other meal I have added more vines, and other things. I am going to take him to a vet. no worries there. I have one about an hour away. I think he fell while I was at work. The bath I give him is only to help him absorb water. He does " hunt" and mealworms and crickets are dusted every other feeding. this is PER VET before i got him!!! I am sorry some of you are feeling bad and are upset. I am n tears myself and as soon as I can afford and able to make the drive HE WILL GO. BUT AS TALKING WITH THE VET AND EMAILING THE LAST DAY N HALF. THERE IS NOT MUCH THE VET CAN DO EXRAY WILL ONLY SHOW WHAT HAS BEEN BROKEN as far as his long term care he will get what he needs. I have over 300 into this baby. He has all the light in the daytime and the driper plant as well. i have posted picks from when he was in good health. and of his enclousre that my husband made for him.

I have all the right lighting, the right temp's the right food and supliments. this was a case of he fell! not neglect. and yes again he will be taken n for xrays. I know the video was hart breaking i cried seeing him this way. I cannot stress enough how bad i feel that i cannot get him in today but i asure you i have sent this video, and pic to the vet ( who will take over his care)


thanks every one for the information. good and angry are understood. again I am very upset at myself for letting him have so much space so young. I will keep you all posted!

We are all happy to see you havent left us! We are all willing to help you get your chameleon back on its feet! Do please check out the link MissLissa wrote and fill in the sheet so we can help you. MBD usually appears from wrong supplementing or lack of UVB light. It makes the bone structure weak and will eventually cause broken bones or/and miss growth. I would believe something here is missing, it would be easier to see if you filled out the post MissLissa linked. As I said we are here to help!
And for the bathing. It's not really a thing you should do to a chameleon. It works for some ground living animals like beardies or even more common, snakes. Chameleons does not understand standing water, thats why they drink rain water from leaves and such and would never use a waterbowl, so as you can see, putting a chameleon in water would only cause stress as it isn't natural for them. Misting him with a spray bottle when he is in his enclosure and maybe use a dripper would help him out big time Because they drink from leaves you could do fine in adding some fake and maybe real if you'd like to your enclosure. It gives him somewhere to drink from and somewhere to hide when he feel like it