Baby's tail deformed?

[SerpeRoma]

Hey everyone, this baby is only 5 days old but appears to have some sort of injury or deformation on his tail.. nothing happened to him at all. He uses it normally and curls it up while sleeping, but it's not straight whenever is relaxed.. anyone has thoughts or experience to share?

 

[SerpeRoma]

@Klyde O'Scope @ERKleRose @kinyonga @Action Jackson

 

[Beman]

Looks a lot like when they get their tail caught in a door. At least it is able to still curl it up properly. If it came out of the egg like that then it would be a deformity rather than injury.

 

[SerpeRoma]

Looks a lot like when they get their tail caught in a door. At least it is able to still curl it up properly. If it came out of the egg like that then it would be a deformity rather than injury.

Yeah, he literally never came even close to the door.. my only guess is that maybe he got stuck in the mesh?! His tail would fit in the openings..

 

[Beman]

Yeah, he literally never came even close to the door.. my only guess is that maybe he got stuck in the mesh?! His tail would fit in the openings..

How are you hooking your branches together? I have seen before where they can get it caught up where the branches come together.

 

[SerpeRoma]

They're hot glued together, I made sure not to leave narrow gaps nor sharp edges

How are you hooking your branches together? I have seen before where they can get it caught up where the branches come together.

 

[Beman]

They're hot glued together, I made sure not to leave narrow gaps nor sharp edges
View attachment 320102View attachment 320103

Well that seems good… I mean the only thing I see there is baby looks really thin especially in the tail.. I can’t say if that would be related though. They are so fragile at this stage.

 

[kinyonga]

In the first photos the tail looks quite healthy and round from his butt down to where the "deformed" part is...in the last photo, his tail looks very thin from the butt down to the "deformed" part. How many days was it from the first photos to the last one?

 

[SerpeRoma]

In the first photos the tail looks quite healthy and round from his butt down to where the "deformed" part is...in the last photo, his tail looks very thin from the butt down to the "deformed" part. How many days was it from the first photos to the last one?

All the pictures were taken today, seconds before posting

 

[Mendez]

Well, if he can curl it up when sleeping, that's a good sign. That's probably a sign that it was deformed in the egg. I would think an injury to that extent would render the tail useless for a bit while it reheals. How many days old is this particular individual? When did you first notice the tail? If it's a couple days old, I think it's more likely to be deformed in the egg rather than an injury. However, I really have no basis to make this claim. This is just speculation from a dude with no egg hatching experience. I'm not sure how fast a baby cham could actually heal from a tail injury. But if it is an injury, I have to assume that it would need to take some time to heal.

My female Furcifer willsii has a little bit of a kinked tail right at the tip. She can't control it but it's not necrotic or turning black. Looks overall healthy. In my case, her tail must have gotten injured in the importation process or in the wild.

 

[Mendez]

You may want to contact breeders like Framschams who has seen a lot of panther chameleons hatch. I'm sure they have seen their fair share of chameleon deformities. It's not super common but also not unheard of.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

IANAV(et)

Due to his current diminutive size, whether a deformation or injury, IDT there's much that can be done about it, but by all means get other opinions and check the archives.

As long as it's fully functional (Do you know if he can use it to grab on and support his weight?) it may (and I'm guessing here) just be cosmetic, and hopefully won't cause him any discomfort.

Will s/he allow you to gently palpate the tail? If not, or things get worse, I'd definitely get him/her to a herp vet.

Here's what CA has to say about tail damage:
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-tail-damage/

Here's an article on kinks & bends in tails from ANAPSID.org
http://www.anapsid.org/tailkinks.html

For now, I would keep an eye on it for any indications of necrosis, paralysis, tail rot, etc.
As he grows, it will get better, worse, or stay the same. I would think about what you'd like to do—i.e. have a plan for each eventuality—ahead of time.

What are your current intentions for the little one? Keep, sell, breed, other...?
That may influence your choices & decision either way.

You may want to contact breeders like Framschams who has seen a lot of panther chameleons hatch. I'm sure they have seen their fair share of chameleon deformities. It's not super common but also not unheard of.

Excellent idea. Might also be worth asking in the Breeding Section(?)

 

[SerpeRoma]

Well, if he can curl it up when sleeping, that's a good sign. That's probably a sign that it was deformed in the egg. I would think an injury to that extent would render the tail useless for a bit while it reheals. How many days old is this particular individual? When did you first notice the tail? If it's a couple days old, I think it's more likely to be deformed in the egg rather than an injury. However, I really have no basis to make this claim. This is just speculation from a dude with no egg hatching experience. I'm not sure how fast a baby cham could actually heal from a tail injury. But if it is an injury, I have to assume that it would need to take some time to heal.

My female Furcifer willsii has a little bit of a kinked tail right at the tip. She can't control it but it's not necrotic or turning black. Looks overall healthy. In my case, her tail must have gotten injured in the importation process or in the wild.

This little guy hatched February 11th, 5 days ago.. I've noticed his tail on the 13th, as far as I know he always had it like that

IANAV(et)

Due to his current diminutive size, whether a deformation or injury, IDT there's much that can be done about it, but by all means get other opinions and check the archives.

As long as it's fully functional (Do you know if he can use it to grab on and support his weight?) it may (and I'm guessing here) just be cosmetic, and hopefully won't cause him any discomfort.

Will s/he allow you to gently palpate the tail? If not, or things get worse, I'd definitely get him/her to a herp vet.

Here's what CA has to say about tail damage:
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-medical-tail-damage/

Here's an article on kinks & bends in tails from ANAPSID.org
http://www.anapsid.org/tailkinks.html

For now, I would keep an eye on it for any indications of necrosis, paralysis, tail rot, etc.
As he grows, it will get better, worse, or stay the same. I would think about what you'd like to do—i.e. have a plan for each eventuality—ahead of time.

What are your current intentions for the little one? Keep, sell, breed, other...?
That may influence your choices & decision either way.


Excellent idea. Might also be worth asking in the Breeding Section(?)

I'm not gonna try to palpate his tail yet since he's VERY tiny, but I will definitely ask other breeders if they ever experienced anything like this.. I'm planning on keeping this one and - maybe - eventually breed him. Thank you both for your knowledge and advice! I'll keep everyone posted.

I'll leave you with this picture for size comparison. My hands are big like the guy from Burger King's commercial.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I'm not gonna try to palpate his tail yet since he's VERY tiny,

Yeah, the pic on your finger makes that abundantly clear. My bad. It looked larger in the first pics, and for some reason I was thinking weeks or months instead of days.

but I will definitely ask other breeders if they ever experienced anything like this.. I'm planning on keeping this one and - maybe - eventually breed him. Thank you both for your knowledge and advice! I'll keep everyone posted.

I guess the only concern I might have about breeding is if it's a genetic deformity that might get passed on. If there's a vet visit between now & then, something to ask (if they can tell).

I'll leave you with this picture for size comparison. My hands are big like the guy from Burger King's commercial.

I watched it, but IDK if you're being facetious or not.
I can relate 'cuz I'm one of those guys that has snausages where other folks have fingers.

 

[redhorse]

Can you share a picture when it is sleeping (curled portion of tail)? Thanks

 

[SerpeRoma]

Can you share a picture when it is sleeping (curled portion of tail)? Thanks

He usually sleeps deep in the foliage, it's kinda hard to find him at all, but I'll take a picture as soon as I can and post it

 

[SerpeRoma]

Here it is!

 

[Mendez]

That's looking like a birth defect to me (again, coming from a guy with no experience). The entire tail, at multiple points, is skewed. In my opinion, that could not have come from an injury if he's still able to move that tail around. There would also be some amounts of discoloration (not necessarily necrotic tissue) imo. All of this is just my opinion, haha. Not much can be done. Is he eating well?

 

[SerpeRoma]

That's looking like a birth defect to me (again, coming from a guy with no experience). The entire tail, at multiple points, is skewed. In my opinion, that could not have come from an injury if he's still able to move that tail around. There would also be some amounts of discoloration (not necessarily necrotic tissue) imo. All of this is just my opinion, haha. Not much can be done. Is he eating well?

I didn't have the chance to stay with him to see if he eats -yet- I just give him some fruitflies in the morning and go to work (I work from 5:45 am to 6 pm) and when I come back from work he's sleeping.. my girlfriend mists him 3-4 times a day but never saw him eating, but she doesn't check on him much. I'm waiting for my day off to observe him during the day..
I'm also thinking to move him in a storage container instead of the small cage since it's kinda hard to put fruitflies in without shaking it

 

[redhorse]

Totally agree with Mendez-
So, if it is muscle and a little deformed as it looks, it can fill in some of the deformity as it grows and sheds (have seen it).
Since he is so little, it is very important to monitor his eating. Example: your idea and count out flies and other food items. JMO they can go downhill quick. I understand you have experience but sometimes I add info so others reading can pick up on stuff.