Baby Veiled

SryAsh97

New Member
I am new to the veiled chameleon world. I got my chameleon a week ago and he's only eaten one cricket since then. I've switched up his food and still nothing. Is that normal for a new chameleon or should I take him to a vet?
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
He's only a hatchling so about 2 to 3 inches long and I do not feed him anything to much bigger than his mouth.
If he is only a hatchling then then you are looking at very very small feeders and tons of them. Fruitflies and pinhead crickets, like tiny. The feeders should never be the size of the mouth or larger as your feeding. Or they will not eat and then they end up dying. Can you post pics of the baby and of the entire enclosure lighting down? If you have pics of the baby when you got it on your hand that would be helpful for us to figure out its size.
Where did you get one so young from?
 

SryAsh97

New Member
Hi and welcome. :) What have you been feeding him (or trying to)? Can you post some pics of him and your enclosure?
If he is only a hatchling then then you are looking at very very small feeders and tons of them. Fruitflies and pinhead crickets, like tiny. The feeders should never be the size of the mouth or larger as your feeding. Or they will not eat and then they end up dying. Can you post pics of the baby and of the entire enclosure lighting down? If you have pics of the baby when you got it on your hand that would be helpful for us to figure out its size.
Where did you get one so young from?
I got him from a friend who couldn’t keep him anymore I’ve had reptiles in the past and I didn’t want something to happen to him I am doing a lot of research and trying to get him everything he needs. What I have is currently all what my friend had for him setup.
 

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suprdude

Established Member
All animals exhibit this behavior when stressed with a new environment. I know it seems like a stretch to compare, but all our foster dogs and cats don't eat much the first couple days.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I got him from a friend who couldn’t keep him anymore I’ve had reptiles in the past and I didn’t want something to happen to him I am doing a lot of research and trying to get him everything he needs. What I have is currently all what my friend had for him setup.

I do have a new uvb light on the way it will be here tomorrow.

Ok glad you have the new uvb light coming. This baby is not getting the uvb it needs with the compact. This does impact eating. Let me know what you bought so I can give you feedback on the distance you will need to basking so baby gets the correct exposure level.

For the size it is you should be able to get 1/4 inch feeders. I would not buy larger then that. baby should be eating at least 15 a day at this age. Fake plants and the moss/fake vines are a hazard with a veiled because they eat everything like a toddler. So they become impaction risks.
Order a feeder run. I like this one in a 3 inch run cup https://www.fullthrottlefeeders.com/feedercups and I like this one in the large size. https://tkchameleons.com/collections/accessories/products/shooting-gallery

Start reading everything in this husbandry program. It will teach you how to provide everything and what is good for them https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
This is your care info for your veiled. https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
 

GrayMadder

Chameleon Enthusiast
I got him from a friend who couldn’t keep him anymore I’ve had reptiles in the past and I didn’t want something to happen to him I am doing a lot of research and trying to get him everything he needs. What I have is currently all what my friend had for him setup.
Is there a food and water bowl for him?
Chameleons don't drink from a water bowl.

You will need to change the plants to real ones and start misting. They are attracted to movement, so when they see the dropping water they will drink from the leaves. After reading through the husbandry program beman posted and making your changes I would suggest doing a husbandry review with this form I posted below:

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
 

SryAsh97

New Member
Ok glad you have the new uvb light coming. This baby is not getting the uvb it needs with the compact. This does impact eating. Let me know what you bought so I can give you feedback on the distance you will need to basking so baby gets the correct exposure level.

For the size it is you should be able to get 1/4 inch feeders. I would not buy larger then that. baby should be eating at least 15 a day at this age. Fake plants and the moss/fake vines are a hazard with a veiled because they eat everything like a toddler. So they become impaction risks.
Order a feeder run. I like this one in a 3 inch run cup https://www.fullthrottlefeeders.com/feedercups and I like this one in the large size. https://tkchameleons.com/collections/accessories/products/shooting-gallery

Start reading everything in this husbandry program. It will teach you how to provide everything and what is good for them https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
This is your care info for your veiled. https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
I just ordered this the Zilla slimline tropical t8
 

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I just ordered this the Zilla slimline tropical t8
So your going to have to do some modifications with this fixture. It is doable but.... You need a 10.0 reptisun T8 bulb for it. And when you get the fixture make sure there is not plastic covering the bulb. You want to raise the fixture 2 inches off the top of the cage and then basking branch would be 5 inches below the screen for the correct uvb level at basking.
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
This baby is not getting the uvb it needs with the compact.
That's not all true. Even though T5s are better, Compact bulbs provide a good amount of UVB.
Many people have raise chameleons on compact bulbs with great success.

To make that statement it's not completely accurate.

I raised my first chameleon on a compact bulb with mealworms for about 6 months before I joined forum.
Then due to popular demand, I bought a T5 fixture.
And coming from a lot of experienced members my chameleon looked really healthy even before I switched UVB and diet.
He was a PetCo chameleon too.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
That's not all true. Even though T5s are better, Compact bulbs provide a good amount of UVB.
Many people have raise chameleons on compact bulbs with great success.

To make that statement it's not completely accurate.

I raised my first chameleon on a compact bulb with mealworms for about 6 months before I joined forum.
Then due to popular demand, I bought a T5 fixture.
And coming from a lot of experienced members my chameleon looked really healthy even before I switched UVB and diet.
He was a PetCo chameleon too.
Unless this baby is positioned with the branch 3 measured inches below this compact bulb then NO the baby is not getting the UVB it needs.They have the fixture raised as well so my statement was totally accurate.

And honestly saying that you never had a problem implies others will not which is irresponsible of you when we have in fact seen chams with extreme MBD after a few months of little to no UVB.

cham kit.jpeg
 
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SryAsh97

New Member
Is there a food and water bowl for him?
Chameleons don't drink from a water bowl.

You will need to change the plants to real ones and start misting. They are attracted to movement, so when they see the dropping water they will drink from the leaves. After reading through the husbandry program beman posted and making your changes I would suggest doing a husbandry review with this form I posted below:

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
Is there a food and water bowl for him?
Chameleons don't drink from a water bowl.

You will need to change the plants to real ones and start misting. They are attracted to movement, so when they see the dropping water they will drink from the leaves. After reading through the husbandry program beman posted and making your changes I would suggest doing a husbandry review with this form I posted below:

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled, I believe male, not sure of age, 1 week.
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I have not besides putting him into his enclosure.
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Crickets, calci worms
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Repti calcium without d3 I do not dust the calci worms
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Misting 3 times a day and drip system, yes I have seen him drink
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Completely screen 1.5ft x 1.5ft x 3ft
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I just got a zilla t8 uvb unsure of the models that he has currently I would have to investigate. And 12 hours on 12 hours off
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking spot ranges between 80-85 and floor is between 70-75. Lowest overnight temp is 60. I have a temperature gun and two thermometers.
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Levels between 50-80%. Misting and drip system. Hygrometer in the middle of the enclosure
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Currently I have fake plants but am changing that
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? A computer desk in the middle of the house, the top of the cage is about 6ft off the floor. No air vents or fans across from a window
  • Location - Where are you geographically located? Central New York
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
@SryAsh97 See my feedback and questions in bold.

  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled, I believe male, not sure of age, 1 week. Looking for a small spur on the back of the back feet for a male. A female will have no spur and it will be smooth.
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I have not besides putting him into his enclosure.
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Crickets, calci worms. Make sure your using 1/4 inch crickets. A feeder run will be helpful for him to eat rather then having them run the cage. Crickets will bite sleeping babies. At this age they should be fed as much as they want basically. So your looking at a minimum of 15 feeders a day. See gutload and feeder image below.
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Repti calcium without d3 I do not dust the calci worms. Perfect. And you need to get a multivitamin with D3. Reptivite With D3 is what I would suggest. This would be used 2 times a month every other week ex: the 1st and the 15th. Then all others feedings you would use the calcium without D3.
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Misting 3 times a day and drip system, yes I have seen him drink. Good. You can actually mist in the morning and evening and skip the mid day misting if humidity levels are sitting too high.
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Completely screen 1.5ft x 1.5ft x 3ft
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I just got a zilla t8 uvb unsure of the models that he has currently I would have to investigate. And 12 hours on 12 hours off. See info I gave you above for the new uvb.
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking spot ranges between 80-85 and floor is between 70-75. Lowest overnight temp is 60. I have a temperature gun and two thermometers. for this age you want to make sure basking is sitting low 80's and no hotter. overnight is a good night time drop.
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Levels between 50-80%. Misting and drip system. Hygrometer in the middle of the enclosure.. Veileds should have 30-40% humidity daytime. If your using an analog gauge then they are not always accurate. 50% mid level means it is about 10-20% lower on basking so that is still good. 80% is a bit on the too high side.
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Currently I have fake plants but am changing that. See the safe plants at this link for veiles. https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? A computer desk in the middle of the house, the top of the cage is about 6ft off the floor. No air vents or fans across from a window
  • Location - Where are you geographically located? Central New York

Accurate info and Product links for things I like:

https://chameleonacademy.com/

https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/

https://www.youtube.com/c/NeptunetheChameleon?sub_confirmation=1

www.dragonstrand.com

https://tkchameleons.com/collections/accessories/products/shooting-gallery


chameleon-gutload.jpg
chameleon-food(1).jpg
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
Unless this baby is positioned with the branch 3 measured inches below this compact bulb then NO the baby is not getting the UVB it needs.They have the fixture raised as well so my statement was totally accurate.

And honestly saying that you never had a problem implies others will not which is irresponsible of you when we have in fact seen chams with extreme MBD after a few months of little to no UVB.

View attachment 295530
I never implied anything. I like to give my first hand experience. You saying I am implying all chams will be ok with coil UVB, it's like saying just because someone won the lottery, you're going to win it next.
So please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
Show me your tests. Your results. Where is all your info coming from? First hand? Second hand?
Do we all believe what we think?
Do we all believe what we are told?
Why do we have a guide for the starter kit, when they're deemed horrible?
Why not make like a guide to supplies for getting a specific first chameleon.

lets say I'm new and want to get a baby veiled, Why not make a guide on what you need,
like a Chameleonforums starter kit. Maybe some links to the equipment.
 

GrayMadder

Chameleon Enthusiast
I never implied anything. I like to give my first hand experience. You saying I am implying all chams will be ok with coil UVB, it's like saying just because someone won the lottery, you're going to win it next.
So please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
Show me your tests. Your results. Where is all your info coming from? First hand? Second hand?
Do we all believe what we think?
Do we all believe what we are told?
Why do we have a guide for the starter kit, when they're deemed horrible?
Why not make like a guide to supplies for getting a specific first chameleon.

lets say I'm new and want to get a baby veiled, Why not make a guide on what you need,
like a Chameleonforums starter kit. Maybe some links to the equipment.
Im going to have to respectfully disagree with you here..
So I think the idea behind these forums is to give the best advice to new reptile owners. You have a little more experience under your belt than most that come here asking for help. While you can provide the correct uvb with a coil bulb, it is a little more challenging to do because of the range the uvb can hit. It's awesome to know you were able to pull it off, but most new reptile owners haven't done this much research into making this work. There are studies that equate to lack of uvb causing metabolic bone disease, and being that coil uvb contribute to that lack they are LINKED to MBD. Not saying you can't pull it off, but I can see why most just go ahead and tell the new owners to invest in linear uvb to ensure that they can provide the uvb the chams need, it's easier and less a new owner has to worry about. It's just labeled a best practice, not to be confused with the only practice. Which I think is what is trying to be conveyed to the OP with, I personally don't think arguing over how you have had success with a coil uvb helps here and I think sticking to best practices with new owners is a safe approach.

And I think your idea of putting together a chameleon forums sheet for equipment with links and studies is a phenomenal idea!! I would love to look into putting something like that together rather than typing it out every time someone asks. Haha.
 
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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I never implied anything. I like to give my first hand experience. You saying I am implying all chams will be ok with coil UVB, it's like saying just because someone won the lottery, you're going to win it next.
So please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
Show me your tests. Your results. Where is all your info coming from? First hand? Second hand?
Do we all believe what we think?
Do we all believe what we are told?
Why do we have a guide for the starter kit, when they're deemed horrible?
Why not make like a guide to supplies for getting a specific first chameleon.

lets say I'm new and want to get a baby veiled, Why not make a guide on what you need,
like a Chameleonforums starter kit. Maybe some links to the equipment.
I am not going to fight and argue with you. The fact is the cham kit with the bulb that is included must be placed within a precised measured distance to be effective and with that said it is only effective for very young babies due to how close to the top of the cage they have to be.

By you saying oh you did it and it was fine... Well that leaves a lot for other newbies to interpret as it would be ok for them. So hey if your ok with others having chams that develop MBD because they read your post saying you did it for 6 months and it was perfectly fine then that is on you.

The image was done by Bill Strand to help newbies transition a starter kit with babies rather then having to immediately go spend a ton of money all at once. It is from a class that he did and I took so that I could help others.

I have a solarmeter 6.5 and I did test the compact that came with the kit and it sucks. And I can see why so many babies die that get put into that kit with that uvb lighting.

Not really sure what is wrong with you today but frankly this is not helping the OP at all! I will not be responding to you again in this thread because as I said I am not up for making the OP feel like their thread is now totally derailed by this. I do not want them to leave and not get their questions answered because they feel uncomfortable.
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
Im going to have to respectfully disagree with you here..
So I think the idea behind these forums is to give the best advice to new reptile owners. You have a little more experience under your belt than most that come here asking for help. While you can provide the correct uvb with a coil bulb, it is a little more challenging to do because of the range the uvb can hit. It's awesome to know you were able to pull it off, but most new reptile owners haven't done this much research into making this work. There are studies that equate to lack of uvb causing metabolic bone disease, and being that coil uvb contribute to that lack they are LINKED to MBD. Not saying you can't pull it off, but I can see why most just go ahead and tell the new owners to invest in linear uvb to ensure that they can provide the uvb the chams need, it's easier and less a new owner has to worry about. It's just labeled a best practice, not to be confused with the only practice. Which I think is what is trying to be conveyed to the OP with, I personally don't think arguing over how you have had success with a coil uvb helps here and I think sticking to best practices with new owners is a safe approach.

And I think your idea of putting together a chameleon forums sheet for equipment with links and studies is a phenomenal idea!! I would love to look into putting something like that together rather than typing it out every time someone asks. Haha.
Yes I was thinking like having different categories in equipment from cost effective (without cutting corners) to Primo equipment.
 
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