Baby Veiled help!!

[kkcoors]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male veiled (Emmett) 5 or 6 weeks? Been in my care for one week today
  
• Handling - I have not physically handled him at all, he is very shy and I do not want to invade his space (working on trust)
  
• Feeding - He gets about 10 small crickets each morning/early afternoon, mealworms for his option but he doesn't seem interested in them
  
• Supplements - I dust the crickets with calcium without d3 and gutload with organic baby food; so far sweet potato and carrot
  
• Watering - I mist warm water with a spray bottle. He is still small so I have him in a smaller cage (see description below, but I mist the whole cage at least every 4 hours until it is dripping, starting about 20 minutes after his lights come on in the morning and do not mist within the 2 hours before the lights go off for bedtime. I have a cup with a hole at the top of the cage that drips down into a small bowl. I have not seen him drink at all.
  
• Fecal Description - Dark brown feces and the urates vary. It was mostly white when I brought him home, and after a couple days very yellow, I increased misting at that time and now the urates have become more white, but still about halfway white and halfway yellow. I do not believe he was tested for parasites, I got him from petco and am now realizing that their care is truly not what it should be when it comes to chams. I'm concerned that he was sick already when I got him and he just was not showing signs, but I don't want to make any assumptions.
  
• History - As I said, he was purchased at Petco :/ and was I'm sure too young to be sold; will not buy from them again. But I just love the little guy. This is my first chameleon. I have done lots and lots of research and endlessly continuing the research, so thankful for this site and community. He is shedding, it seems when I got him he was almost finished with his shed except for the top of his head including between his eyes and some small patches over his ribs (all still there for the most part). He is extremely shy and does puff up just a bit at me randomly (but pretty rarely), but i have not seen any rapid color changes from him, he will sway back and forth sometimes when my presences is unwelcome lol which I understand he is still getting used to me and his new home and veileds can often be that way.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - I have the R-Zilla fresh air screen habitat 18x12x20 I am working on a bigger one for when he gets a bit bigger
• Lighting - I have the reptisun 5.0 compact UVB bulb and household bulb sitting on top of the cage. His lights are on a timer from 7 am to 8 pm
  
• Temperature - The bottom of the cage stays near 70 degrees and the basking spot stays around 85. Lowest overnight gets to high 60s. I have a thermometer right next to the cage
  
• Humidity - The humidity levels range from 50% to 80 or 85% but stays mostly closer to 65%. I mist the cage often and have a live plant, I had a humidifier in the room but read that that was not a good idea? I keep a gauge right near the cage.
  
• Plants - I had him with a ficus and an umbrella plant, but the ficus is too big and just have the umbrella plant now with a long fake foliage vine (he seems to prefer that).
• Placement - He is in a spare room with two large windows (not in direct sunlight) and I keep the door shut, while it is the quietest room in the house, i live in a very old (renovated) apartment right next to a busy street so as much as I have tried to contain the noise the cars and sometimes my neighbors unfortunately are still very well heard. I'm not sure how to make that much better, I am not a fan of it either. The top of the cage is only about four feet off of the ground, but I will make a much higher stand for him, for now when I go into his room I basically am crawling on my knees haha to try to not intimidate him.
  
• Location - I am in NE Ohio (ugh snow), so we have very versatile seasons. The other day it was 45 and raining and today it's 75 and sunny.

Current Problem - I am really concerned. He seems a bit on the weak side, maybe a little shaky, he is very often trying clean out his eyes I believe, looks as though he's pulling them in and now there's a bubble like bulge when he does it. I've watched him scratch/rub his eyes against the branches and sometimes he will sit there with one eye closed for awhile. He also has two small bumps under the skin about the same size on one side of his body near his backbone. The urates I've also been trying to monitor but doesn't seem to pass too often, but his more recent ones had more white than they did a few days ago. I thought maybe since he is shedding on top of his head too that some skin got into his eyes, but it's been a few days since he has started doing this and it seems like his eyes are a bit sunken. Also based on his skin appearance (more wrinkled) I'm worried that he's dehydrated, but I have not seen him drink water at all from anywhere, and he hates the mistings even though I do not spray him directly. I bought a saline solution for his eyes, but have not used it, wanted to get others opinions, but also I know he won't let me get near enough to him to use it. He eats well (although he's missed his shot a couple times with his tongue), doesn't seem to have an appetite decrease. Do I need to get him to a vet?? I really don't know what to do and I feel so bad! I would really appreciate some advice. I am posting photos and videos if I can as well, he really looks about the same as he did a week ago when I brought him home aside from the eye problems.

 

[adamk5610]

It seems to me that he has a bit of an eye infection. I would take him to the vet if I were you. Funny thing, I just got my cham from petco about a week ago, and I also live in NE Ohio. lol

 

[kkcoors]

It seems to me that he has a bit of an eye infection. I would take him to the vet if I were you. Funny thing, I just got my cham from petco about a week ago, and I also live in NE Ohio. lol

Oh that's really interesting! Have you taken yours to a vet yet? Or know of any good ones in the area?

 

[Ladythrasher89]

• "Lighting - I have the reptisun 5.0 compact UVB bulb and household bulb sitting on top of the cage. His lights are on a timer from 7 am to 8 pm"

What do you mean by household bulb? Do you mean just a regular incandescent bulb? I would look into getting an actual heat basking bulb. Also I would limit your timer to closer to only 12 hours of light.

 

[kkcoors]

• "Lighting - I have the reptisun 5.0 compact UVB bulb and household bulb sitting on top of the cage. His lights are on a timer from 7 am to 8 pm"

What do you mean by household bulb? Do you mean just a regular incandescent bulb? I would look into getting an actual heat basking bulb. Also I would limit your timer to closer to only 12 hours of light.

It is a 100 watt incandescent, I have read over and over that they work the same as a heat basking bulb. Thank you I will reduce the light time

 

[jajeanpierre]

It is a 100 watt incandescent, I have read over and over that they work the same as a heat basking bulb. Thank you I will reduce the light time

Yikes that's a lot of heat for one little baby! He's very cute. Be careful you don't cook him.

Does he often sit under the basking light with his mouth open like in the first picture? He looks like he is too hot.

First off, it sounds like he is possibly dehydrated. They don't always know to go to the dripper, especiallyl babies. Go to one of the big pet shops and find this mister:

http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/conceptual-creations-mistr-lizard-junior-for-reptiles

It's a great mister and gives more of a fog. He won't mind it at all--no hard droplets. Use warm water and start away from him and move gradually towards him until you are spraying him directly. Well, sort of directly--mist so the mist falls on him from above so you don't actually spray him but the air above him and if falls gently down. You can pump it up and spray him for a long time. Mist his face a lot. That bulging of his eyes is his trying to clean the eye from some debris. They need misting to be able to clean their eyes. It likely has nothing to do with an eye infection.

An incandescent bulb is fine but I doubt you want 100w. Are you sure of the temperatures? As a baby, he should be kept at a lower temperature than an adult male. The hotter they are the faster they dehydrate.

 

[kkcoors]

Yikes that's a lot of heat for one little baby! He's very cute. Be careful you don't cook him.

Does he often sit under the basking light with his mouth open like in the first picture? He looks like he is too hot.

First off, it sounds like he is possibly dehydrated. They don't always know to go to the dripper, especiallyl babies. Go to one of the big pet shops and find this mister:

http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/conceptual-creations-mistr-lizard-junior-for-reptiles

It's a great mister and gives more of a fog. He won't mind it at all--no hard droplets. Use warm water and start away from him and move gradually towards him until you are spraying him directly. Well, sort of directly--mist so the mist falls on him from above so you don't actually spray him but the air above him and if falls gently down. You can pump it up and spray him for a long time. Mist his face a lot. That bulging of his eyes is his trying to clean the eye from some debris. They need misting to be able to clean their eyes. It likely has nothing to do with an eye infection.

An incandescent bulb is fine but I doubt you want 100w. Are you sure of the temperatures? As a baby, he should be kept at a lower temperature than an adult male. The hotter they are the faster they dehydrate.

Oh thank you so much!! I will be out to find that first thing in the morning! I will definitely pick up a lower wattage bulb while I'm out as well. He does not usually sit with his mouth open I've only seen him do that a couple of times and only for a moment or two - I think I might just have weird timing with the camera. But I will mist him as you suggested, I appreciate the wisdom. Would a fogger be okay to get for him for a bit while he is still young? I do need to get something on a timer so the schedule can be more regimented plus my job just unexpectedly switched my usual schedule on me which will have me away for longer periods of time where I won't be able to hand mist him so regularly.

 

[adamk5610]

Oh that's really interesting! Have you taken yours to a vet yet? Or know of any good ones in the area?

I took my little guy to a vet in Willoughby earlier today because I noticed some signs of a RI. I'm not sure which one but I live in Mentor so it wasn't too much of an inconvenience.

 

[kkcoors]

I took my little guy to a vet in Willoughby earlier today because I noticed some signs of a RI. I'm not sure which one but I live in Mentor so it wasn't too much of an inconvenience.

Oh that wouldn't be all that inconvenient for me at all. So funny that you're so close! If you end up liking the vet and want to pass along their info that would be great! Nice to have a cham neighbor! Also hope your little guy is feeling better!

 

[adamk5610]

Oh that wouldn't be all that inconvenient for me at all. So funny that you're so close! If you end up liking the vet and want to pass along their info that would be great! Nice to have a cham neighbor! Also hope your little guy is feeling better!

I was in and out in about 45 minutes, I just had to wait on the baytril to arrive, but I picked it up later on in the day. I was very pleased. It was the willoughby hills animal hospital

 

[kkcoors]

I was in and out in about 45 minutes, I just had to wait on the baytril to arrive, but I picked it up later on in the day. I was very pleased. It was the willoughby hills animal hospital

Awesome! Glad to hear it

 

[jajeanpierre]

Oh thank you so much!! I will be out to find that first thing in the morning! I will definitely pick up a lower wattage bulb while I'm out as well. He does not usually sit with his mouth open I've only seen him do that a couple of times and only for a moment or two - I think I might just have weird timing with the camera. But I will mist him as you suggested, I appreciate the wisdom. Would a fogger be okay to get for him for a bit while he is still young? I do need to get something on a timer so the schedule can be more regimented plus my job just unexpectedly switched my usual schedule on me which will have me away for longer periods of time where I won't be able to hand mist him so regularly.

Honestly, I think a misting system is the way to go. MistKing has a fairly inexpensive system made for people with one or two chameleons. One of the most important things you need in a misting system is one that can run dry and not break. The cheap ones will be totally destroyed if they run dry.

 

[kkcoors]

Honestly, I think a misting system is the way to go. MistKing has a fairly inexpensive system made for people with one or two chameleons. One of the most important things you need in a misting system is one that can run dry and not break. The cheap ones will be totally destroyed if they run dry.

Thank you, I'll get one set up asap!

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thank you, I'll get one set up asap!

Look at MistKing, the starter kit. Get the tube cutting tool. It is worth its weight in gold.

 

[CAETimlin32]

Thank you, I'll get one set up asap!

No! Doing a misting system is a bad idea, you're just going to spread the bacteria. Take your cham to the vet, and then use a drinking glass. No misting. Chameleons don't need misting, this is old school. This web site frustrates me, so many people that have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[JGspecial]

are you serious or just trolling? if you dont like it here then go to another site.

 

[Chris Anderson]

No! Doing a misting system is a bad idea, you're just going to spread the bacteria. Take your cham to the vet, and then use a drinking glass. No misting. Chameleons don't need misting, this is old school. This web site frustrates me, so many people that have no idea what they're talking about.

This is completely false and inaccurate. Clearly your 13 months worth of experience with a single chameleon has made you an expert, however spreading such misinformation is extremely dangerous and irresponsible. Appropriate levels of misting for an enclosure is the single best way to provide humidity and hydration, which are absolutely essential for a chameleon to survive. While other methods do exist, they are not nearly as reliable, nor as effective in all environments or for all individuals. Any reasonably maintained misting system should not spread bacteria as suggested and the benefits well outweigh any downside.

OP - Your chameleon generally looks pretty good and your setup generally seems to be done well. As suggested, I would lower the wattage of the basking bulb to ~72Watt, but this will depend a lot on the environment you are keeping the chameleon in and the ambient conditions. Its more important to have the right temperatures at the basking spot than it is to go by any guideline of appropriate wattage. That said, a normal incandescent bulb will work fine. I also would increase your misting frequency and durations. Chameleons can take a while to start drinking, particularly if they are scared or nervous. One benefit of a misting system is it will provide consistency and privacy for the chameleon to be able to drink without feeling threatened by your presence. It also will allow you to more accurately control the conditions in the enclosure throughout the day.

Chris

 

[reptiles4evar]

I hope he's not serious lol.

 

[kkcoors]

This is completely false and inaccurate. Clearly your 13 months worth of experience with a single chameleon has made you an expert, however spreading such misinformation is extremely dangerous and irresponsible. Appropriate levels of misting for an enclosure is the single best way to provide humidity and hydration, which are absolutely essential for a chameleon to survive. While other methods do exist, they are not nearly as reliable, nor as effective in all environments or for all individuals. Any reasonably maintained misting system should not spread bacteria as suggested and the benefits well outweigh any downside.

OP - Your chameleon generally looks pretty good and your setup generally seems to be done well. As suggested, I would lower the wattage of the basking bulb to ~72Watt, but this will depend a lot on the environment you are keeping the chameleon in and the ambient conditions. Its more important to have the right temperatures at the basking spot than it is to go by any guideline of appropriate wattage. That said, a normal incandescent bulb will work fine. I also would increase your misting frequency and durations. Chameleons can take a while to start drinking, particularly if they are scared or nervous. One benefit of a misting system is it will provide consistency and privacy for the chameleon to be able to drink without feeling threatened by your presence. It also will allow you to more accurately control the conditions in the enclosure throughout the day.

Chris

I went out this morning and switched his 100 watt for a 75 and will monitor the basking temp, I will order a good misting system as soon as I can (thank you for the suggestion jajeanpierre!), and I am increasing the misting frequency and duration as you suggested. Until the misting system comes in do you have any tips or suggestions to make sure the humidity stays where it needs to be for him (and what have you found to be the best humidity range for his age)? My house tends to be relatively dry. Is a baby warm humidifier in the room a bad idea? I cannot say thank you enough, I genuinely appreciate the expertise!

 

[kkcoors]

What about hornworms? Thought they would be too big for his size although I am sure they come in smaller sizes... Good idea for assistance in hydration?