Are Orchids safe to use with Veileds?

ZEROPILOT

Established Member
I like the look of Orchids. The flowering ones with the exposed roots...
Are they safe with Veileds?
One of my 3 Veileds eats plant material and I don't want to poison him.
But I LOVE the look and the color.
 

salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
The late Dr. Holger perner found anti cancer properties in dendrobiums for humans, not sure about the others
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Safe for the Cham or safe for the Orchid? Yes to the Former, the later is a big No. :p.

Kidding kidding, but I have plants/orchids that cost 3x as much as Veilieds, so only halfway kidding lol. Orchids are Pets TOO!

In all seriousness, they are fine but hard to grow in Cham cages. I lost a 100 dollar angraceum trying to mount it in my cage. Hindsight 20/20, I did not have enough misting nozzles, mounted it in a poor spot, and didn't do it the best way.

I lost 3 75+ dollar plants that month :( for that reason, the Angraceum, a Nepenthes madagascariensis, and a Huperzia squarrosa :(.

I did however manage to keep alive, 2 A. nidus, epiphytically that had been terrestrially grown clones. And that's not an easy feat! :). They are a little more forgiving then the others though, and they did get a little rough, but they didn't pass, and now I have that issue fixed :).

So point of the story. Make sure you have the misters, and the proper location ect planned first, alot of those guys are not very forgiving.
 
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salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
Cham poo is very very alkaline, that could have been a contributing factor to your plants demise, cattleyas grow alkaline found on rocks, those would be ok if the plant is an adult and well mounted, I have a bunch of dendrobiums, superbum, and anosumum that are growing crazy fast and big, I have them pendulous in a net pot, they also hold the weight of my adult ambilobe
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Cham poo is very very alkaline, that could have been a contributing factor to your plants demise, cattleyas grow alkaline found on rocks, those would be ok if the plant is an adult and well mounted, I have a bunch of dendrobiums, superbum, and anosumum that are growing crazy fast and big, I have them pendulous in a net pot, they also hold the weight of my adult ambilobe
Cham wasn't in the big viv at the time, he was still in a smaller QT Cage. It was the misters, when I built the cage I wasn't thinking about the misters depth or lack there of. I built a "Bar" to hold 4 nozzles in the front of the cage, and that isnt nearly enough for a 48x24x38 with 40k lumens of light lol. All 3 plants were at the back wall.

The Nep was also a seed grown and was likely not going to survive anyway, after speaking to some CP peeps, the seed Grown madagascariensis do not handle shock AT ALL, and are extremely hard to keep alive at all, I knew that going in I will try again in summer with a WZ clone, and it was planted in a branch planter toward the back.

The orchid was mounted, and much too large/old, to likely try and mount after it had been grown in pot for so long. It also was in rough shape when I first got it, and I had to trim back some rotting roots, so the not getting enough water was the nail in the coffin. It did still survive the longest of the 3.

The Tassel Fern, suffered from the same, and more issues than the orchid. the orchid was mounted direct to the cork, with arguably maybe not enough moss. the fern had likely too much moss, I wrapped its roots in moss, and use a 1/3 chunk of a round to pin it to the background. When removing it, the roots and moss was a little tighter packed against the back wall then I thought. Both however were not receiving anywhere near enough water. This one might not be a loss, when it was dead, I threw it to the Viv floor, and it has seemed to come back to life. Its stem is seriously damaged since being on the floor, however I clipped the tip (it was a baby anyway) and put some rooting hormone on their, I mounted it to bark, and set it on the viv floor. the stem is green again, and that tip is growing new roots, and the bottoms roots are still growing outward. If I can end with the death of that small guy (it takes a long time to get a small guy) and end with a root system from that dead plant, which is mounted epiphytically that will be a win. It will be set back a year, but it will be a much stronger and better mounted plant.

This was an experience, never done a cage of this magnitude, never worked with these specific plants, little experience mounting. The misters were not getting back far enough, the misting times were not perfected well enough, I was still try to dial in the lights, ect. I know have 2x as many misters (front and back) and they run for much longer. I currently (and temporarily) have a Nepenthes ventricosa where the Madgascar was, that I got as a rescue from my mom. She got it, thought it cool and wasnt taking good care of it, I put in the Viv, it was round, 1 of the 3 stalks completely dead, a bunch of dead leaves, ZERO pitchers, it now has 1 tiny pitcher that opened today, and 3 that have cleared the initial phases, and will be opening in the next week or 2.

All the plants in the Viv are endemic to Madagascar, except the nep thats temporary and a Passiflora edulis that has been nothing but a headache. Both of those are temporary.

Oh and my A.nidus are the Cham bathroom, he likes to poop on/in them, and they LOVE it. Both of them, have a few of their older leaves drooping, a few dead on 1 of them. Im not sure if this is a bad thing though.They are mounted as they would in Situ, I have 2 pieces of large driftwood, and they were literally stripped of all soil, and set on there and wired down to it loosely. All the pics of in situ, show those dead leaves staying attached, and build a kind of skirt to protect the roots, and the one with a couple of dead leaves, is doing exactly that, and both have 4-5 new leaves each, with a few baby ones unrolling right now. They are staying very firm standing up as well, outside of a few of the oldest leaves, where my last attempt with them was more droopy. Also they are reptile toilets in Situ as well, thats why they are called birds nest ferns in common, they get poop and debri ect, and use it to protect their crown and get nutrients. As they grow on dead trees and branches. My largest concern was everywhere said they can not be watered via their crown. If you look in situ, and their overall design, they are literally build as rain funnels into their crown. That might not work, in a non Reptile Terrarium, however they get water into their crown and feces and urinates, and dead bugs, and god knows what else, and they are thriving.

Sorry to hijack your thread Zero, and sorry for the long winded post. But this is a good example and motto for you, If your not killing 100s of dollars in plants, your not learning anything :). It sucks to lose so much money in plants, but I am Learning what I did wrong with them so I can grow them next time :).
 

salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
Good posting!! Thanks for the info! I have a 5 gallon backpack sprayer, I hand spray my chams and plants, every other day & I fertilize with various insect frass and it's been working very well!! My daytime temps are almost 30 degrees different from night, 55-60 n 86-87 d and I use humidifiers at night, from 12:00 am to 5:30 am my humidity is 80% during the day it's 45 - 50 I use 2 different sprayers for fertilizing plants and watering chams
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Good posting!! Thanks for the info! I have a 5 gallon backpack sprayer, I hand spray my chams and plants, every other day & I fertilize with various insect frass and it's been working very well!! My daytime temps are almost 30 degrees different from night, 55-60 n 86-87 d and I use humidifiers at night, from 12:00 am to 5:30 am my humidity is 80% during the day it's 45 - 50 I use 2 different sprayers for fertilizing plants and watering chams
Jeez that sounds like a pain lol. It is one way to make FOR sure everything gets water though :).
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm buying those unloved Orchids from Home Depot and I'll report back later
So I have two of the cheap "unloved" orchids in my enclosure with Beman lol. I love them and buy them then well I kill them. So I figured I would give it a go in his cage. So in the 2 months that they have been there they have grown but no new flowering. I kept mine in the plastic sleeve to keep him out of the moss and mounted them with zip ties. Now Beman is big into eating his plants. In two months he has tried the orchid leaf once. Then he never tried again. I really do not think he liked the texture since his usual is his pothos to munch on. I have 2 types of dracena, 2 types of pothos, and the 2 orchids. The only thing he actively eats is the pothos. I do have a quad for lighting. 2 bulbs are 6500 daylight bulbs and 1 is a plant pro bulb. I have one orchid in the top third and one in the middle of his cage. Both get spray from the mist king. Neither are near the heat bulb.
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
So I have two of the cheap "unloved" orchids in my enclosure with Beman lol. I love them and buy them then well I kill them. So I figured I would give it a go in his cage. So in the 2 months that they have been there they have grown but no new flowering. I kept mine in the plastic sleeve to keep him out of the moss and mounted them with zip ties. Now Beman is big into eating his plants. In two months he has tried the orchid leaf once. Then he never tried again. I really do not think he liked the texture since his usual is his pothos to munch on. I have 2 types of dracena, 2 types of pothos, and the 2 orchids. The only thing he actively eats is the pothos. I do have a quad for lighting. 2 bulbs are 6500 daylight bulbs and 1 is a plant pro bulb. I have one orchid in the top third and one in the middle of his cage. Both get spray from the mist king. Neither are near the heat bulb.
Most Orchids dont take to shock very well. Changing there location, messing with their roots, changing their light drastically ect, will usually set them back for a year or more. They will still grow, but they wont flower for a year + after being shocked.

Thats why they are usually only sold flowered, as once you take them they will skip a year most the time, and not flower again for 2 years (most only flower 1 time a year).

Alot of the more delicate and rare plants that I posses are that way, not just orchids. Some will even stop growth completely for a year, if they are bothered too much. I was disappointed when I found that out about my Tassel Fern, it kind of died but is showing signs of return. Then I found out, that it will take 1-2 years to reach 2-3 inches tall, and the 24inch long specimens I have seen, with tons of shoots, take 7-10 years to achieve that size. The high pricing of some of them start to make more sense.

Same with my Stephanotis. I have a baby, its about 7 inches tall now, and was like 3 when I got it. Thats slow growth for what becomes a 30ft vine. However I read that its the early growth that is the issue. It will take a year to get to the 10-12 inch mark, but once it does it will go crazy with speed of growth and be 20 feet in another year.

SO TLDR: If your Orchid is growing, then you are good. Do not expect flowers, until 2 years after you get it.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Most Orchids dont take to shock very well. Changing there location, messing with their roots, changing their light drastically ect, will usually set them back for a year or more. They will still grow, but they wont flower for a year + after being shocked.

Thats why they are usually only sold flowered, as once you take them they will skip a year most the time, and not flower again for 2 years (most only flower 1 time a year).

Alot of the more delicate and rare plants that I posses are that way, not just orchids. Some will even stop growth completely for a year, if they are bothered too much. I was disappointed when I found that out about my Tassel Fern, it kind of died but is showing signs of return. Then I found out, that it will take 1-2 years to reach 2-3 inches tall, and the 24inch long specimens I have seen, with tons of shoots, take 7-10 years to achieve that size. The high pricing of some of them start to make more sense.

Same with my Stephanotis. I have a baby, its about 7 inches tall now, and was like 3 when I got it. Thats slow growth for what becomes a 30ft vine. However I read that its the early growth that is the issue. It will take a year to get to the 10-12 inch mark, but once it does it will go crazy with speed of growth and be 20 feet in another year.

SO TLDR: If your Orchid is growing, then you are good. Do not expect flowers, until 2 years after you get it.
Yeah I have a habit of killing them off totally. It was worse when I lived in AZ where everything dries up in a matter of minutes but I have very little skill with plants lol. So maybe these guys will decide to give me flowers in a year or so since I have managed not to totally kill them. :) Good to know that. Thanks!
 

ZEROPILOT

Established Member
I got 3 of these.
No flowers on them.
They are plants of about 8" in length with bare roots. (In plastic bags)
At only $10 each, I'm giving them a shot.
Itd be pretty sad if I'm able to kill a plant that was growing happily in a plastic bag, sitting on a shelf in the shade.
 

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cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
I got 3 of these.
No flowers on them.
They are plants of about 8" in length with bare roots. (In plastic bags)
At only $10 each, I'm giving them a shot.
Itd be pretty sad if I'm able to kill a plant that was growing happily in a plastic bag, sitting on a shelf in the shade.
VANDA's and they had them in the shade..... Are you sure they were in the shade and not extremely bright indirect sunlight.

Were in they outside? Could it have just been the time of the day? Thats the most light Demanding Orchid there is. Your going to need some serious light to flower a Vanda. Do not beat your self up if you kill them. That is one of the Hardest Orchids to keep alive, never mind flowering. They need Insane amounts of light, and not high temps. Those are not beginner orchids in the slightest.

Dont underestimate that shade cloth, under a shade cloth full sunlight is still 50/60k lumens.

I hope you have alot of light, your going to need 4 T5s at a minimum, and be sure they are close to it on top of that, like upper 12 inches of the cage.

Also do not underestimate that plastic bag. That plastic bag provides condensation which ensures those Roots are wet 24/7.

I really like her vids, so here is a good care guide.
 
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salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
Vandas are a great species!! Some of species can take bright semi direct to full sun light, and the roots need water everyday and they need to dry very soon after or they will rot, and need heat, 80 minimum, they grow very well outside in florida
 

ZEROPILOT

Established Member
VANDA's and they had them in the shade..... Are you sure they were in the shade and not extremely bright indirect sunlight.

Were in they outside? Could it have just been the time of the day? Thats the most light Demanding Orchid there is. Your going to need some serious light to flower a Vanda. Do not beat your self up if you kill them. That is one of the Hardest Orchids to keep alive, never mind flowering. They need Insane amounts of light, and not high temps. Those are not beginner orchids in the slightest.

Dont underestimate that shade cloth, under a shade cloth full sunlight is still 50/60k lumens.

I hope you have alot of light, your going to need 4 T5s at a minimum, and be sure they are close to it on top of that, like upper 12 inches of the cage.

Also do not underestimate that plastic bag. That plastic bag provides condensation which ensures those Roots are wet 24/7.

I really like her vids, so here is a good care guide.
Geez
Out of the light. In bags hung up on hooks. Several plants deep.
I'll take a photo next time I go there.
 

ZEROPILOT

Established Member
The bags DO make sense.
There was water in them.
I've got them in a spot where the mister hits them and they are lit by my plant lights
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Geez
Out of the light. In bags hung up on hooks. Several plants deep.
I'll take a photo next time I go there.
Right so the bags, work like a sealed terrarium. The water cycles itself, it is absorbed, then transpired clean and reused. That bag has a constant cycle of Water, and 100% humidity.

As to the light, there is a difference between Survive, Grow, and Flower. Especially in a short term. Box stores, cycle plants weekly or bi weekly. They do not plan on those staying on the shelf, and most orchids are sold as throwaways anyway.

Vandas can do okay with less water than some My Angecrums require insane amounts of water. So you shouldn't be too bad off, just try to give as much light as you can and watch the signs, of under watering, or over watering, and if you kill it dont let it get to ya, grab another and try again :). Plants are great in that they will tell you exactly what is wrong, and usually hopefully give you time to fix it.
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
This is the set up at Home Depot.
Ya I wouldn't personally buy plants that were kept like that. That is seemingly more of a method of easy management, not a lessen in what the plant needs.

Sadly alot of Orchids are sold with the intention of dying, that is why most are sold flowered. They are bought as a cool table top, when they die in a month.

All you can do is throw them in and see how it goes, and adapt as needed. And def dont beat yourself up if those die, they are coming from a poor start.

They are most likely hybrids judging by that label, so that may alter anything, Everything. However for Species, that video is a great rundown and likely good for clones.

I kill 100 dollar plants and buy 2 more, dont sweat a 6 dollar :).
 
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