Are Hornworms Too Big??

ebarrychameleon

ebarrychameleon

Member
I got some hornworms from Joshs Frogs and fed one to my cham, it were kinda big (like thick around and probably a few inches long) and now she's at the top of her enclosure gaping and making swallowing motions. Will she be ok? I don't think I will feed hornworms any more.
 
Generally they are fine because they mostly consist of water, hence making them super squishy and easily digestible. How old is you chameleon? If it's to young/small you may can hold off till their a bit older.
 
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
 
Hydra_cosplay said:
Generally they are fine because they mostly consist of water, hence making them super squishy and easily digestible. How old is you chameleon? If it's to young/small you may can hold off till their a bit older.
Click to expand...
She is somewhere between 7-12 months (the previous owner didn't really know). Personally I would think on the lower side because she's still pretty small, but it's hard to be sure.
 
Hornworms when they are larger are harder for a cham to take down. Skin is thicker and they have a harder time with them. Some will get them down after a bit of a struggle. Holding their nose up and extending the gular. Some will puke them back up. I only feed smaller horns due to this no larger then an inch and a half long. At that size they are able to chew them and the horns also have smaller mandibles so bite risk is reduced.
 
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, female, 7-12 months old (prev owner not sure). I have had her for all of three days ? I'm just worried that I'll do something wrong and want to make sure she's getting the best care possible.
  • Handling - I haven't handled her since I got her, I've offered her a 'hand taxi' but she does not seem to trust me enough yet.
  • Feeding - I'm feeding dubias and hornworms. Friday she had 7 dubias all an average of 3/4 ish in, yesterday she had 5 dubias and 2 1.5 in hornworms, today all she's had is one 4in ish hornworm as a treat since I felt bad after invadng her space to clean the floor of the enclosure. I'm currently feeding daily as I think she is still very young and needs the energy to grow. I am gut loading the dubias with kale, almond, and apple. Hornworms have their special cup stuff from Josh's frogs.
  • Supplements - I have repticalcium and rep cal multivitamin. I am doing calcium for most of the feeds and then will do the vitamin maybe once every two weeks.
  • Watering - I mist every 4 hours with an exo terra monsoon solo. The cycle lasts 2 minutes. I haven't seen her drink (I'm not around her all the time) but there are water drops on leaves available for her.
  • Fecal Description - She has not been tested for parasites as I know of. I haven't found any droppings yet, but I don't know if she hasn't had any or if they arejust hidden in some of the plants in the enclosure.
  • History - I got her from someone who had to rehome because he was going to college. Hasn't laid eggs yet. She has not ever been to the vet but has iverall been healthy from what I understand. She used to eat crickets but I just switched her to dubias.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage with cling wrap on 3 of the sides to keep humidity in.
  • Lighting - I have a linear t5 uvb bulb for uvb. I also have a combo uvb and heat bulb I am using as the heat source for now, That's what she came with but I'm looking for a new one that's just heat. Lights come on and off at 7 am and pm, respectively.
  • Temperature - Cage floor is around 70 and basking spot in the higher 80s in the daytime. At night they go off (her cage is in my finished basement which doesn't get below 60 for now -- will probably get a lower-grade heat mat or emitter for the wintertime as I live in a colder climate. I measure the temps with a heat gun that points a laser at a spot then tells you the temp.
  • Humidity - Humidity is around 55% when most evaporated and gets up to a little over 60% after mistings. I am creating the humidity with the mister and keeping the plastic wrap on the sides. I use a digital hygrometer to measure humidity.
  • Plants - She has 3 live plants in her enclosure - a ficus tree (which came from the previous home and seems to be her favorite) and 2 hanging pothos plants which she doesn't seem to use as much.
  • Placement - The cage is located at the bottom of the basement stairs. I am a student and still live with my whole family, so there are 4 people in the house. It is not a super high traffic area but it is how everyone gets into the basement (my dad works from home downstairs on weekdays, but his office is in the opposite side of the basement. My brother and I will go to hang out/ play video games via these stairs. I'd say it is a medium-low traffic area as we spend most of our time upstairs. The top of the cage is probably 6ft off the ground.
  • Location - I am in Massachusetts.

Current Problem - She has stopped swallowing and gaping a few minutes after I fed the hornworm. That was the first time I ever saw her gape. Mostly I just want to make sure everything is ok for her, I have been meaning to fill this out anyway. I am going to make a laying bin in her enclosure probably today or tomorrow.
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--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
 
Beman said:
Hornworms when they are larger are harder for a cham to take down. Skin is thicker and they have a harder time with them. Some will get them down after a bit of a struggle. Holding their nose up and extending the gular. Some will puke them back up. I only feed smaller horns due to this no larger then an inch and a half long. At that size they are able to chew them and the horns also have smaller mandibles so bite risk is reduced.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much! I think she was having trouble getting it down because it was so big -- I will make sure to only go with the small ones in the future.
 
ebarrychameleon said:
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, female, 7-12 months old (prev owner not sure). I have had her for all of three days ? I'm just worried that I'll do something wrong and want to make sure she's getting the best care possible.
  • Handling - I haven't handled her since I got her, I've offered her a 'hand taxi' but she does not seem to trust me enough yet.
  • Feeding - I'm feeding dubias and hornworms. Friday she had 7 dubias all an average of 3/4 ish in, yesterday she had 5 dubias and 2 1.5 in hornworms, today all she's had is one 4in ish hornworm as a treat since I felt bad after invadng her space to clean the floor of the enclosure. I'm currently feeding daily as I think she is still very young and needs the energy to grow. I am gut loading the dubias with kale, almond, and apple. Hornworms have their special cup stuff from Josh's frogs.
  • Supplements - I have repticalcium and rep cal multivitamin. I am doing calcium for most of the feeds and then will do the vitamin maybe once every two weeks.
  • Watering - I mist every 4 hours with an exo terra monsoon solo. The cycle lasts 2 minutes. I haven't seen her drink (I'm not around her all the time) but there are water drops on leaves available for her.
  • Fecal Description - She has not been tested for parasites as I know of. I haven't found any droppings yet, but I don't know if she hasn't had any or if they arejust hidden in some of the plants in the enclosure.
  • History - I got her from someone who had to rehome because he was going to college. Hasn't laid eggs yet. She has not ever been to the vet but has iverall been healthy from what I understand. She used to eat crickets but I just switched her to dubias.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage with cling wrap on 3 of the sides to keep humidity in.
  • Lighting - I have a linear t5 uvb bulb for uvb. I also have a combo uvb and heat bulb I am using as the heat source for now, That's what she came with but I'm looking for a new one that's just heat. Lights come on and off at 7 am and pm, respectively.
  • Temperature - Cage floor is around 70 and basking spot in the higher 80s in the daytime. At night they go off (her cage is in my finished basement which doesn't get below 60 for now -- will probably get a lower-grade heat mat or emitter for the wintertime as I live in a colder climate. I measure the temps with a heat gun that points a laser at a spot then tells you the temp.
  • Humidity - Humidity is around 55% when most evaporated and gets up to a little over 60% after mistings. I am creating the humidity with the mister and keeping the plastic wrap on the sides. I use a digital hygrometer to measure humidity.
  • Plants - She has 3 live plants in her enclosure - a ficus tree (which came from the previous home and seems to be her favorite) and 2 hanging pothos plants which she doesn't seem to use as much.
  • Placement - The cage is located at the bottom of the basement stairs. I am a student and still live with my whole family, so there are 4 people in the house. It is not a super high traffic area but it is how everyone gets into the basement (my dad works from home downstairs on weekdays, but his office is in the opposite side of the basement. My brother and I will go to hang out/ play video games via these stairs. I'd say it is a medium-low traffic area as we spend most of our time upstairs. The top of the cage is probably 6ft off the ground.
  • Location - I am in Massachusetts.

Current Problem - She has stopped swallowing and gaping a few minutes after I fed the hornworm. That was the first time I ever saw her gape. Mostly I just want to make sure everything is ok for her, I have been meaning to fill this out anyway. I am going to make a laying bin in her enclosure probably today or tomorrow.
View attachment 274875 View attachment 274876 View attachment 274877 View attachment 274878 View attachment 274879 View attachment 274880 View attachment 274881 View attachment 274882View attachment 274883 View attachment 274884

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
Click to expand...
Update: just made a laying bin
9D110209-C71F-44A3-AFED-7965906E9EA7.jpeg
 
ebarrychameleon said:
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, female, 7-12 months old (prev owner not sure). I have had her for all of three days ? I'm just worried that I'll do something wrong and want to make sure she's getting the best care possible.
  • Handling - I haven't handled her since I got her, I've offered her a 'hand taxi' but she does not seem to trust me enough yet.
  • Feeding - I'm feeding dubias and hornworms. Friday she had 7 dubias all an average of 3/4 ish in, yesterday she had 5 dubias and 2 1.5 in hornworms, today all she's had is one 4in ish hornworm as a treat since I felt bad after invadng her space to clean the floor of the enclosure. I'm currently feeding daily as I think she is still very young and needs the energy to grow. I am gut loading the dubias with kale, almond, and apple. Hornworms have their special cup stuff from Josh's frogs.
  • Supplements - I have repticalcium and rep cal multivitamin. I am doing calcium for most of the feeds and then will do the vitamin maybe once every two weeks.
  • Watering - I mist every 4 hours with an exo terra monsoon solo. The cycle lasts 2 minutes. I haven't seen her drink (I'm not around her all the time) but there are water drops on leaves available for her.
  • Fecal Description - She has not been tested for parasites as I know of. I haven't found any droppings yet, but I don't know if she hasn't had any or if they arejust hidden in some of the plants in the enclosure.
  • History - I got her from someone who had to rehome because he was going to college. Hasn't laid eggs yet. She has not ever been to the vet but has iverall been healthy from what I understand. She used to eat crickets but I just switched her to dubias.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage with cling wrap on 3 of the sides to keep humidity in.
  • Lighting - I have a linear t5 uvb bulb for uvb. I also have a combo uvb and heat bulb I am using as the heat source for now, That's what she came with but I'm looking for a new one that's just heat. Lights come on and off at 7 am and pm, respectively.
  • Temperature - Cage floor is around 70 and basking spot in the higher 80s in the daytime. At night they go off (her cage is in my finished basement which doesn't get below 60 for now -- will probably get a lower-grade heat mat or emitter for the wintertime as I live in a colder climate. I measure the temps with a heat gun that points a laser at a spot then tells you the temp.
  • Humidity - Humidity is around 55% when most evaporated and gets up to a little over 60% after mistings. I am creating the humidity with the mister and keeping the plastic wrap on the sides. I use a digital hygrometer to measure humidity.
  • Plants - She has 3 live plants in her enclosure - a ficus tree (which came from the previous home and seems to be her favorite) and 2 hanging pothos plants which she doesn't seem to use as much.
  • Placement - The cage is located at the bottom of the basement stairs. I am a student and still live with my whole family, so there are 4 people in the house. It is not a super high traffic area but it is how everyone gets into the basement (my dad works from home downstairs on weekdays, but his office is in the opposite side of the basement. My brother and I will go to hang out/ play video games via these stairs. I'd say it is a medium-low traffic area as we spend most of our time upstairs. The top of the cage is probably 6ft off the ground.
  • Location - I am in Massachusetts.

Current Problem - She has stopped swallowing and gaping a few minutes after I fed the hornworm. That was the first time I ever saw her gape. Mostly I just want to make sure everything is ok for her, I have been meaning to fill this out anyway. I am going to make a laying bin in her enclosure probably today or tomorrow.
View attachment 274875 View attachment 274876 View attachment 274877 View attachment 274878 View attachment 274879 View attachment 274880 View attachment 274881 View attachment 274882View attachment 274883 View attachment 274884

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
Click to expand...
update: just saw her gape again. it has been like 2.5 hours since she ate the worm.
 
Everything’s looking good on husbandry..at least I think so. You need more leaves in enclosure. Is it possible that your cham is just scared and aggresive? Is he hissing or opening louth only when you are around?
 
Serbianchameleon said:
Everything’s looking good on husbandry..at least I think so. You need more leaves in enclosure. Is it possible that your cham is just scared and aggresive? Is he hissing or opening louth only when you are around?
Click to expand...
I think she may just be gaping sometimes because she isn't used to me yet. She was pretty personable with her old owner (she was ok with handling), but considering that she just underwent a big change in environment I can totally see why she's acting aggressive. Hopefully she will get more used to me in the coming weeks. Thanks for looking it all over!
 
Ive seen this before and my best guess is that sometimes when a cham is over-hydrated that open their mouths and gape because it's basically acting like a dehumidifier. Too much water and they want to evaporate some. Just from my personal observations specifically with hornworm feeding.
 
DeShawni Green said:
Ive seen this before and my best guess is that sometimes when a cham is over-hydrated that open their mouths and gape because it's basically acting like a dehumidifier. Too much water and they want to evaporate some. Just from my personal observations specifically with hornworm feeding.
Click to expand...
It could also be this but from my expirience they gape when they are too hot. Well at least mine do
 
saradoggy10 said:
Do not release bred bugs- it can really mess with the ecosystem. Throw them in the freezer if you don't want them.
Click to expand...
We have plenty of hornworms here in Mobile Alabama. Our species is not blue as a caterpillar. If you grow a tomato plant you will get hornworms. What is the species of the blue hornworm? I can identify adult moths.
 
Great lakes hornworm site was blocked by a trojan. This has the blue one pictured. The ones I released unless they can live on passionflower or another vine will not survive. We have the Gulf Fritillary on the passion flower.
 
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