Anxious! Dilly's first time gravid.

[ZacharyLeesWife]

I'm a nervous wreck, my little girl is not exactly little right now! I have her bin set up, and she's checked it out but not shown interest in digging. She's not pacing or snooping around either do I don't think it's quite time to lay yet. She has cut back on eating enough to worry me a little but I made her a thin paste of calcium and reptivite in mashed banana and apple juice and she loves it, she'll drink it from a straw for me. She also loves her drips, I see her drinking all the time so dehydration isn't a concern. I don't think that her eggs are fertile BUT I did make the mistake of thinking that she was too young, so I put her and my male together in a ficus tree on the weekends to deep clean their cages, I never saw any bickering or mating rituals first hand but my hands were full sanitizing. Any advice on how to tell if the eggs are fertile? And what the hell to do with all those babies if they are?? I think everything is going fairly by the book but I still worry about her constantly! Bless her little green heart, she's spilling over her back legs.

 

[Lizzie The Chameleon]

I'm a nervous wreck, my little girl is not exactly little right now! I have her bin set up, and she's checked it out but not shown interest in digging. She's not pacing or snooping around either do I don't think it's quite time to lay yet. She has cut back on eating enough to worry me a little but I made her a thin paste of calcium and reptivite in mashed banana and apple juice and she loves it, she'll drink it from a straw for me. She also loves her drips, I see her drinking all the time so dehydration isn't a concern. I don't think that her eggs are fertile BUT I did make the mistake of thinking that she was too young, so I put her and my male together in a ficus tree on the weekends to deep clean their cages, I never saw any bickering or mating rituals first hand but my hands were full sanitizing. Any advice on how to tell if the eggs are fertile? And what the hell to do with all those babies if they are?? I think everything is going fairly by the book but I still worry about her constantly! Bless her little green heart, she's spilling over her back legs.View attachment 169173

Was she ever mated? If not they aren't fertile for sure

 

[Lizzie The Chameleon]

Also her legs look a little bowed to me, could just be the angle

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

Was she ever mated? If not they aren't fertile for sure

Also her legs look a little bowed to me, could just be the angle

She wasn't mated intentionally and I never saw any mating firsthand, I was only nervous about fertility because she did have limited access to my male. Without being crude, would the "mating" be obvious? I'll try to get a better picture of her legs for you!

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

Also her legs look a little bowed to me, could just be the angle

Her legs are certainly chubby. More so towards her ankles, I don't see any bowing but if you do I'll get her straight to the vet for density scans!

 

[Lizzie The Chameleon]

Her legs are certainly chubby. More so towards her ankles, I don't see any bowing but if you do I'll get her straight to the vet for density scans!View attachment 169180 View attachment 169181 View attachment 169182

Yeah it was just the angle, just making sure when she lays just post a pic of the eggs and someone will be able to say if they're fertile (yellowish is infertile)

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

Yeah it was just the angle, just making sure when she lays just post a pic of the eggs and someone will be able to say if they're fertile (yellowish is infertile)

I'll definitely keep posting about her first egg cycle! I really hope to get an infertile clutch, dozens of newborns are way over my head. After research on the mating (including videos that I feel guilty for watching... the invasion of privacy, yikes!) I definitely haven't seen any of that... behavior. Thank you for the input on her legs, I'm relatively new to chameleons and I lost one within a week of bringing her home so I'm a little neurotic about watching them for problems. I don't know what I would do without this community, the input is absolutely invaluable.

 

[Lizzie The Chameleon]

I'll definitely keep posting about her first egg cycle! I really hope to get an infertile clutch, dozens of newborns are way over my head. After research on the mating (including videos that I feel guilty for watching... the invasion of privacy, yikes!) I definitely haven't seen any of that... behavior. Thank you for the input on her legs, I'm relatively new to chameleons and I lost one within a week of bringing her home so I'm a little neurotic about watching them for problems. I don't know what I would do without this community, the input is absolutely invaluable.

Awesome! No problem. I'm sorry for your loss. Yes this forum is a blessing, I lost my Cham a month ago and I'm still learning more

 

[jajeanpierre]

I'm a nervous wreck, my little girl is not exactly little right now! I have her bin set up, and she's checked it out but not shown interest in digging. She's not pacing or snooping around either do I don't think it's quite time to lay yet. She has cut back on eating enough to worry me a little but I made her a thin paste of calcium and reptivite in mashed banana and apple juice and she loves it, she'll drink it from a straw for me. She also loves her drips, I see her drinking all the time so dehydration isn't a concern. I don't think that her eggs are fertile BUT I did make the mistake of thinking that she was too young, so I put her and my male together in a ficus tree on the weekends to deep clean their cages, I never saw any bickering or mating rituals first hand but my hands were full sanitizing. Any advice on how to tell if the eggs are fertile? And what the hell to do with all those babies if they are?? I think everything is going fairly by the book but I still worry about her constantly! Bless her little green heart, she's spilling over her back legs.View attachment 169173

She looks to have a lot of edema. That's basically retained fluids and because of the effects of gravity, the bloating often collects around their throat, hence the term gular (throat) edema. This often happens when they are gravid, but supplementing also causes edema. It would seem you are supplementing at much higher levels than recommended. Reptivite is at minimum of 4.2% "salt." Sodium chloride (table salt) affects edemas. Reptivite doesn't specify which salt is in their product.

The fact you see her drinking "all the time" is worrying. I never see my chameleons drinking unless they are dehydrated or have just finished laying eggs.

Part of the reason they stop eating is simply there isn't enough room in their bellies for a full stomach. I'm sure the edema is complicating that.

I would stop your vitamin supplements but continue with calcium. I would be inclined to not give her bananas simply because of their high potassium content and she seems to have some sort of mineral imbalance that is causing her edema. I would put her back on an insect diet that are gut loaded with a very healthy gutload.

Hopefully when you stop the vitamins, she will stabilize and stop drinking all the time.

I doubt the eggs are fertile since you didn't see them mating. Chameleon breeding takes a lot of time. The mating itself takes many minutes and that is not including the courtship or them positioning themselves to facilitate breeding. I've never timed copulation, but I would say 10 minutes minimum seems pretty normal for my quads/graciliors. As well, they are usually quite excited before and after a breeding and usually show it by their colors. Since you haven't noticed any breeding behaviors, I doubt anything happened.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

She looks to have a lot of edema. That's basically retained fluids and because of the effects of gravity, the bloating often collects around their throat, hence the term gular (throat) edema. This often happens when they are gravid, but supplementing also causes edema. It would seem you are supplementing at much higher levels than recommended. Reptivite is at minimum of 4.2% "salt." Sodium chloride (table salt) affects edemas. Reptivite doesn't specify which salt is in their product.

The fact you see her drinking "all the time" is worrying. I never see my chameleons drinking unless they are dehydrated or have just finished laying eggs.

Part of the reason they stop eating is simply there isn't enough room in their bellies for a full stomach. I'm sure the edema is complicating that.

I would stop your vitamin supplements but continue with calcium. I would be inclined to not give her bananas simply because of their high potassium content and she seems to have some sort of mineral imbalance that is causing her edema. I would put her back on an insect diet that are gut loaded with a very healthy gutload.

Hopefully when you stop the vitamins, she will stabilize and stop drinking all the time.

I doubt the eggs are fertile since you didn't see them mating. Chameleon breeding takes a lot of time. The mating itself takes many minutes and that is not including the courtship or them positioning themselves to facilitate breeding. I've never timed copulation, but I would say 10 minutes minimum seems pretty normal for my quads/graciliors. As well, they are usually quite excited before and after a breeding and usually show it by their colors. Since you haven't noticed any breeding behaviors, I doubt anything happened.

Good luck and keep us posted.

When I say she drinks all the time, I mean everyday. Not constantly, but I can definitely cut out the vitamin supplements. Calcium and hydration were my main concerns, she's not eating at all today and next to nothing for the last few days prior. Both of my chams have done the hunger strike thing before, but only in protest of a feeder they weren't interested in. She won't touch anything, even hornworms!

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

Update, I got her to eat a fairly large hornworn!!

Is there a better option as far as multivitamin type? I haven't heard of reptivite causing problems on it's own, only too much or too little of it causing problems. I am going to stick to the calcium only for now but in the long term if the brand is known to cause issues, I would be happy to switch!

 

[jajeanpierre]

I'll definitely keep posting about her first egg cycle! I really hope to get an infertile clutch, dozens of newborns are way over my head. After research on the mating (including videos that I feel guilty for watching... the invasion of privacy, yikes!) I definitely haven't seen any of that... behavior. Thank you for the input on her legs, I'm relatively new to chameleons and I lost one within a week of bringing her home so I'm a little neurotic about watching them for problems. I don't know what I would do without this community, the input is absolutely invaluable.

The simple solution for fertile eggs you don't want is to put them in the freezer to kill the undeveloped embryos. It's standard practice at zoos and places like that. You might even cook them up for yourself or a dog. (Why waste good food just because it isn't a common part of the North American diet?)

You can often get a pretty good idea that they are infertile when they are laid based on their size and shape, but I doubt a novice could tell with their first clutch.

Veileds are a very common chameleon. There is no need to add to the captive-bred population. They wholesale for about $8 apiece. You can imagine neither the mother nor the babies were fed a very nutritious diet at $8 a piece. I've heard of some breeders who feed the babies they can't sell to their breeding stock. I know a big breeder of quads did that back in the 90s--he fed his excess quad babies to his veileds.

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

The simple solution for fertile eggs you don't want is to put them in the freezer to kill the undeveloped embryos. It's standard practice at zoos and places like that. You might even cook them up for yourself or a dog. (Why waste good food just because it isn't a common part of the North American diet?)

You can often get a pretty good idea that they are infertile when they are laid based on their size and shape, but I doubt a novice could tell with their first clutch.

Veileds are a very common chameleon. There is no need to add to the captive-bred population. They wholesale for about $8 apiece. You can imagine neither the mother nor the babies were fed a very nutritious diet at $8 a piece. I've heard of some breeders who feed the babies they can't sell to their breeding stock. I know a big breeder of quads did that back in the 90s--he fed his excess quad babies to his veileds.

That's horrible! I absolutely do not want to add to the over abundance of veileds. And as much as I adore my babies, they are big box pet store chams so no special genetics that would warrant reproduction. I know that easy breeding is one of the reasons that you can get an iguana for 5.95, but most people have no business trying to raise them. I feel like such an irresponsible parent for even letting them get close enough to possibly be mating, I thought they were still too young! But I definitely didn't see any color changes or courting rituals, certainly no actual mating. They both just wanted to be climby lizards in the tree, they didn't pay each other any mind. I definitely can't incubate the clutch even on the very off chance that it's fertile because I will want to keep every single one of those little babies.

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

I caved in to my first clutch anxiety and called the vet. She said as far as nutritional support, this was the best way to go. Lizard ensure, basically. Also, that I should nix any other supplements while I have her on this. 1cc of water to 1 scoop of powder per day. Dilly bean loves it, she laps it right from the syringe. I forgot to ask how many cc's of water she should be taking per day minimum! Any rough ideas?

 

[Lizzie The Chameleon]

I caved in to my first clutch anxiety and called the vet. She said as far as nutritional support, this was the best way to go. Lizard ensure, basically. Also, that I should nix any other supplements while I have her on this. 1cc of water to 1 scoop of powder per day. Dilly bean loves it, she laps it right from the syringe. I forgot to ask how many cc's of water she should be taking per day minimum! Any rough ideas?View attachment 169225

All I see is all that Halloween candy

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

All I see is all that Halloween candy

The candy is for her Mom!