ALEX NEEDS HELP!

lubben

Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Alex is about 1 year old. He is a male jackson chameleon
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
I handle him pretty frequently. I have a tree by the window in my room that I carry him to every day or two. I do not frequently just handle him for a long period of time, I usually just take him to his tree.
I also mostly hand feed him. I sometimes do that while i'm holding him
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
My chameleon has eaten crickets, meal worms, and occasional wax worms for most of his life. Recently i have been feeding him some silk worms.
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
So… I kind of screwed up. I was not ever aware of the importance of vitamin supplementing until about 2 months ago.
For the first 6-8 months of having alex i only dusted his insects with calcium +D3.
I was then told he may be vitamin A deficient. I was told to supplement him with some liquid vitamin A to give hima boost. After doing that I began supplienting him with
Reptivite without D3 (once every 3 weeks)
Repashys calcium plus LoD (2 times a week)
Calcium without D3 (every feeding)
Calcium with D3 (once every 2 weeks)
I only did this for about 2.5 weeks and then stopped because of the issues hes been having this past week
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
I use both an automatic mister and I hand mist him. I do see him drinking and he is showing no signs of dehydration
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
Never tested for parasites
His feces have always looked healthy. His urate has always been white.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Alex has never been a big eater. He usually would only really eat 2-3 insects and usually not every day.
He also along with that only poops about once a week.


Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Screen cage
18 x 18 x 36
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Lights are on from 8:30-8:30
I have a 125 watt heating bulb that is on a dimmer so its not too hot
I have a 18 inch, 15 watt, 18 bp, tropical UVB
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Day, basking spot is 85-90 at the very top, he usually hangs out 2 inches below that spot
Night temp is between 60-70 degrees
These are measured with an electric thermometer
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
I have no way of measuring humidity. I live in Monterey so the natural is relatively humid and his cage always has a little visible moisture
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
I have two live plants and some fake vines as well.
One plant says “anthurium in deco” and the other says “HB Pothos Golden”
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Cage is next to my closet. My room is constantly about 69-71 degrees with no fans. My house heating comes from the flooring
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?
I live in Monterey, CA
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

So, i have four problems

1
(not really concerned about this one anymore because its not getting worse or bothering him. I think it has been solved but I thought id share to give whoever willing to help as much info as possible)
For most of Alex's life he has developed hard bumps on his tail. I was told that it was from too much D3 so I stared supplementing him with calcium without D3 and it seems to have stopped progressing. The bumps don't seem to bother him.

2
Over the past 4ish months Alex's vision started to deteriorate.When he was young he could shoot a normal distance, close to a foot was the longest I ever saw.
He has a very hard time aiming at insects, it has gotten to the point where he has to have the insect right in front of his face and he still can't get it unless I kind of put it on his tongue.

I have even caught him shooting his tongue at LITERALLY nothing.
(here's a video of that) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1m9UyrjGH50r8HMlt-ikSz4k3BLzjg8WG

I was told this issue was because of a lack of vitamin A so I began supplementing him and after 2-3 weeks he showed no sign of improvement. After that is when issue number 3 (see below) started to happen.

3
for the past week-ish he has started acting very lethargic. He has been eating much less.
He has been spending a lot of the day hanging upside down from his back legs/tail.
At night on a few occasions I have found him all the way at the bottom of his cage laying down. He seems massively uncoordinated. Today he was using his back leg to grab his own head when he was trying to move very fast out of the way of the sprayer.
He has little reaction to ANYTHING I do to him. For example, when I handle him he does not really grab my hand. Another example, (for issue number 4 see below) he totally lets me touch his face without really reacting as most chameleons do.
I think he may have some loss of sensation, emphasis on Maybe. I picked him up when he was sleeping on the very bottom and he didn't wake up.

4
His left cheek is swollen. It sticks out much farther than his right and looks very round. It is very soft to the touch. I only noticed it yesterday so I am unaware if it is getting increasingly worse. (see photos comparing left and right and inside of mouth)
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ANY HELP THAT CAN BE GIVEN WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!! IF ANY INFO OR PHOTOS NEEDED PLEASE LET ME KNOW! THANKS!
 
Calling @JacksJill to help you. @JacksJill keeps jacksons more by far than I do.

It sounds like it might be a nutrient imbalance issue for the tongue and the uncoordinated movements/grasping himself, bumps...but then he may, in addition to that, have a temporal gland infection (swollen cheek) issue.

The bumps can be from too much D3 along with too much calcium. The grasping himself issue also is a calcium imbalance.

Vitamin D3, calcium, phos, vitamin A all have to be in balance for good bone health, and many other things in their system.

I'm going to make another post and for a while I will be adding to it as I find some information for you...so keep checking my next post for a bit.
 
Calling @JacksJill to help you. @JacksJill keeps jacksons more by far than I do.

It sounds like it might be a nutrient imbalance issue for the tongue and the uncoordinated movements/grasping himself, bumps...but then he may, in addition to that, have a temporal gland infection (swollen cheek) issue.

The bumps can be from too much D3 along with too much calcium. The grasping himself issue also is a calcium imbalance.

Vitamin D3, calcium, phos, vitamin A all have to be in balance for good bone health, and many other things in their system.

I'm going to make another post and for a while I will be adding to it as I find some information for you...so keep checking my next post for a bit.

does the grabbing of himself suggest he has too much or too little calcium?

Do you think his coordination issues could've been cause by over supplementing?
I didn't supplement him with any vitamins prior to the 2 weeks before he started having those issues. I think I may have been giving him too much.
 
Just so you know...I'm not a vet. Whatever I say comes from my experience and from what I've read from studies, etc and from what I've heard/read about from others' experiences.

The grabbing and tongue issues are usually signs of MBD. It takes time to show symptoms as a rule.

The nutrient balance is all complicated. The chameleon needs a proper balance of phos, calcium, vitamin A, vitamin D3/UVB. The issue is that we don't know the exact balance for most of it so we can only assume that if the chameleon is healthy and lives a long life we got things somewhat right.

This is the short form of the balance...

If there is an improper balance of calcium to phos the bones won't be strong and other systems will be affected too. Many insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phos...so we dust with calcium to help make up for it.

If there is too little D3 or too much there will be health issues. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues but D3 from exposure to a UVB light or UVB from sunlight won't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB at will. So...to try to balance it we give some D3 from supplements and hope that the chameleon gets enough exposure to UVB to allow it to produce whatever else it needs.

Now...vitamin A...it comes in two forms...prOformed and prEformed.

PrOformed won't build up in the system so it's safe. It comes from carotenoids like beta carotene (found in plants/veggies, etc.). However it's not known if all/any chameleons can convert it or convert enough of it.

PrEformed vitamin A on the other hand, can build up in the system and lead to health issues. It's ready to go and doesn't need to be converted...it comes from "meat" sources and words like acetate, retinol, retinal, palmitate, retinyl indicate lrEformed sources in the vitamins.

In addition to all of this...vitamin D3 and vitamin A are antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance with each other. Too much or too little of one affects the other.

So we supplement each species the way we hope/know keeps them healthy as possible...but it's all a guess basically....figured out from our experiences.

Hope this long story helps.
 
Just so you know...I'm not a vet. Whatever I say comes from my experience and from what I've read from studies, etc and from what I've heard/read about from others' experiences.

The grabbing and tongue issues are usually signs of MBD. It takes time to show symptoms as a rule.

The nutrient balance is all complicated. The chameleon needs a proper balance of phos, calcium, vitamin A, vitamin D3/UVB. The issue is that we don't know the exact balance for most of it so we can only assume that if the chameleon is healthy and lives a long life we got things somewhat right.

This is the short form of the balance...

If there is an improper balance of calcium to phos the bones won't be strong and other systems will be affected too. Many insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phos...so we dust with calcium to help make up for it.

If there is too little D3 or too much there will be health issues. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues but D3 from exposure to a UVB light or UVB from sunlight won't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB at will. So...to try to balance it we give some D3 from supplements and hope that the chameleon gets enough exposure to UVB to allow it to produce whatever else it needs.

Now...vitamin A...it comes in two forms...prOformed and prEformed.

PrOformed won't build up in the system so it's safe. It comes from carotenoids like beta carotene (found in plants/veggies, etc.). However it's not known if all/any chameleons can convert it or convert enough of it.

PrEformed vitamin A on the other hand, can build up in the system and lead to health issues. It's ready to go and doesn't need to be converted...it comes from "meat" sources and words like acetate, retinol, retinal, palmitate, retinyl indicate lrEformed sources in the vitamins.

In addition to all of this...vitamin D3 and vitamin A are antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance with each other. Too much or too little of one affects the other.

So we supplement each species the way we hope/know keeps them healthy as possible...but it's all a guess basically....figured out from our experiences.

Hope this long story helps.

okay, so with all of that being said, do you think his vision/coordination issues are reversible?
 
Yes...you just have to get the supplementing, UVB, feeding/gutloading the insects right.
I'm hoping @JacksJill will help you soon.
awesome thank you so much.
do you think that his overload of D3 early in his life may have caused him not even take up any of the A ive even him in the recent months? or do you think since I stopped giving him D3 for a while has balanced out?
 
D3 can store in the body for a long time....at least 6 months.
Too much D3 can lead to bone and calcium issues. I don't know about the affect on the vitamin A...I'm not a vet and you would need testing to figure all that out. What I do know is that it can all usually be brought back into line and get the chameleon back on track as long as the pre is no organ damage that happened from all of this that will stop that from happening.
 
D3 can store in the body for a long time....at least 6 months.
Too much D3 can lead to bone and calcium issues. I don't know about the affect on the vitamin A...I'm not a vet and you would need testing to figure all that out. What I do know is that it can all usually be brought back into line and get the chameleon back on track as long as the pre is no organ damage that happened from all of this that will stop that from happening.
awesome thank you so much.
 
I know this isn’t related to the issue and I’m not an expert, but mealworms should not be fed because they have a thick exoskeleton that is hard to digest and are not very nutritious.

I know this is not related to the issue, b it I wanted to make sure that you are aware. I hope your Cham gets better!
 
I know this isn’t related to the issue and I’m not an expert, but mealworms should not be fed because they have a thick exoskeleton that is hard to digest and are not very nutritious.

I know this is not related to the issue, b it I wanted to make sure that you are aware. I hope your Cham gets better!
okay, thanks!
 
You need to get your supplement schedule under control. There are a couple ways to do it but I use a schedule of phos, free calcium 2-3 days a week lightly and Repashy Calcium plus loD every 2 weeks in place of a calcium dusting.
 
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His basking spot is too hot stay closer to 82-85 max.
I suspect he has something else going on as well. Those bumps aren't typical of a nutritional imbalance. Do you have a ver?
 
You need to get your supplement schedule under control. There are a couple ways to do it but I use a schedule of phos, free calcium 2-3 days a week lightly and Repashy Calcium plus loD every 2 weeks in place of a calcium dusting.
Does that mean phosphorus free calcium?
Do I need to feed him calcium w/ D3 if I’m using calcium plus loD
 
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