Adult Female Panther Supplementation - Missing Feeders

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Female panther chameleon approx 1.5 (not from a breeder, I was told she was 5 months old when I got her in March of 2018)
  • Handling - Rarely. For vet visits or deep cage cleans. She does not like it so I don't.
  • Feeding - Banded crickets, bsfl, bsf, silks -- butterworms as a rare treat. 7-9 depending on size adult crickets every 3-4 days. Some BSFL and BSF, or Blue Bottles (Really rare, they hatch too fast for me) in between -- silks maybe 4 or 5 times a month when I can get them. We were doing hornworms but we had a bit of a violent encounter with one of those bastards so we don't anymore. She refused the hawkmoth (probably too big for her,) and she wouldn't eat the roaches when I first offered them, but it has been a while since we tried...? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Bandeds are gut loaded with a variety of fruits / veg and hemp hearts and bee pollen. veg -- carrots, brocolli, various greens but no spinach, , squash, spurlina, strawberries, dandelion leafs, oranges, apples, some berries occassionally -- sometimes I blend this together with water as a paste. Silks eat the mulberry leaf.
  • Supplements - At the moment she is only getting Repasy Calcium Plus dusted on her banded crickets -- this is my concern, I am worried it is too much D / A - I am not as keyed in on this part of my husbandry and I would like to get very detailed about it for her.
  • Watering - Naturalistic Hydration. Mister goes on at 6:50 right before before her light and goes for 10 minutes. dry period until 2 pm @ 4 minutes. 430 - 10 minutes, 8pm 10 minutes. I see her drink and I also raise the humidity at night via fogger.
  • Fecal Description - She has good poops -- pretty solid with white urates. She doesn't poop very often , ever since i've had her. She poops maybe once a week -- if she goes longer her urates are more yellow, but I believe I real that can be normal, as her body will reabsorb moisture from the urate? Could be mistaken.
  • History - I have had her since March of 2018, I got her from Petco. We have seen an exotic veterinarian once about 4 months into me having her to just make sure she was okay. I use the term "exotic vet" carefully because this was not an exotic specific clinic -- but the Owner had good experience with Reptiles and other exotics. He has been good about helping me via phone and has owned many reptiles -- but never a cham.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Dragon Strand Large Keeper --- 23.75x23x48
  • Lighting - Carolina Customs light fixture 32 inches with a Reptisun 10.0 T5 - on from 7am - 7pm.
  • Temperature - Basking is about 86-89, mid range is about 74-45 and the floor it can get to 68-69
  • Humidity - This is hard in Colorado and I've had to make a lot of tweaks. She has two humidity gauges in her enclosure near the top and near the bottom -- I usually read from the top one. Her driest period in the middle of the day gets to 30% but I get it up to 85-90% at night with the heavy misting and fogger. Fogger runs about 7 hours. I found that adding a 10 minute mist at 4pm kept the humidity boosted (50-60%) until night.
  • Plants - Yup. Pathos, Draceana, more pathos, bromeliad, orchid, prayer plant, ficus, triostar stromanthe. She has a lay bin too, but preferred the pathos when she layed.
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? The cage is in my home office, where I spend a good amount of time. It is in the corner of the room away from any direct sunlight, the vents are closed off in this room -- and it is not in front of them either way. The cage is on top of 1 tier of garage shelving, so the top of the cage is above my head when I stand in front of it.
  • Location - Colorado.

Current Problem - She has missed her food -- twice now, in a week. She shoots and misses, Her mouth and tongue appear fine. Tongue shoots normally -- but I was reading on here that missing is a sign of a problem, likely with supplementation. When she was young, she got calc no d3 at every feeding, Minerall indoor every two weeks and calc w/d3 every two weeks. When she appeared to be gravid her first time, vet suggested I switch off everything and just do Repashy Calc Plus at every staple feeding (dusted on crickets and silks, not bsfl or treat worms). At the time I was worried it would be too much d3, but he suggested it would help her with her egg production. I have been doing that for 9 months. She laid her first clutch with no problems in January.

About a year ago -- I was dusting her feeders with Calc Plus and bee pollen -- I noticed she developed a small swelling on her neck, which I am pretty sure was an edema due to too much of something, so I stopped using bee pollen as dusting and started using it as gut load. Her edema went away within two weeks. I see a little tiny bit coming back -- so I'm wondering if she is getting too much d3 and A in the calc plus. Is there something off in my husbandry for this to be only coming up now, after almost a year of this supplementation?

My girl is very very sweet and so chill and nice. I put the down payment on another cham from Chromatic, (just spent hours trimming pond foam on his to be enclosure today) but I need to make sure I get her 100% before bringing another one. Wanted to get another one cause I love her so much and felt like since i've had her for a year and she seems to be doing great it felt right, then she started missing her food, and thanks to this forum -- I see that's not ok.

Thank you!

*Photos*
Photo of her was taken Yesterday. Photos of her enclosure were taken a few moments ago. Her lay bin is out because I was picking out bits of shed.I start the fogger right before I go to sleep.
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Daesie11

Chameleon Enthusiast
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Female panther chameleon approx 1.5 (not from a breeder, I was told she was 5 months old when I got her in March of 2018)
  • Handling - Rarely. For vet visits or deep cage cleans. She does not like it so I don't.
  • Feeding - Banded crickets, bsfl, bsf, silks -- butterworms as a rare treat. 7-9 depending on size adult crickets every 3-4 days. Some BSFL and BSF, or Blue Bottles (Really rare, they hatch too fast for me) in between -- silks maybe 4 or 5 times a month when I can get them. We were doing hornworms but we had a bit of a violent encounter with one of those bastards so we don't anymore. She refused the hawkmoth (probably too big for her,) and she wouldn't eat the roaches when I first offered them, but it has been a while since we tried...? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Bandeds are gut loaded with a variety of fruits / veg and hemp hearts and bee pollen. veg -- carrots, brocolli, various greens but no spinach, , squash, spurlina, strawberries, dandelion leafs, oranges, apples, some berries occassionally -- sometimes I blend this together with water as a paste. Silks eat the mulberry leaf.
  • Supplements - At the moment she is only getting Repasy Calcium Plus dusted on her banded crickets -- this is my concern, I am worried it is too much D / A - I am not as keyed in on this part of my husbandry and I would like to get very detailed about it for her.
  • Watering - Naturalistic Hydration. Mister goes on at 6:50 right before before her light and goes for 10 minutes. dry period until 2 pm @ 4 minutes. 430 - 10 minutes, 8pm 10 minutes. I see her drink and I also raise the humidity at night via fogger.
  • Fecal Description - She has good poops -- pretty solid with white urates. She doesn't poop very often , ever since i've had her. She poops maybe once a week -- if she goes longer her urates are more yellow, but I believe I real that can be normal, as her body will reabsorb moisture from the urate? Could be mistaken.
  • History - I have had her since March of 2018, I got her from Petco. We have seen an exotic veterinarian once about 4 months into me having her to just make sure she was okay. I use the term "exotic vet" carefully because this was not an exotic specific clinic -- but the Owner had good experience with Reptiles and other exotics. He has been good about helping me via phone and has owned many reptiles -- but never a cham.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Dragon Strand Large Keeper --- 23.75x23x48
  • Lighting - Carolina Customs light fixture 32 inches with a Reptisun 10.0 T5 - on from 7am - 7pm.
  • Temperature - Basking is about 86-89, mid range is about 74-45 and the floor it can get to 68-69
  • Humidity - This is hard in Colorado and I've had to make a lot of tweaks. She has two humidity gauges in her enclosure near the top and near the bottom -- I usually read from the top one. Her driest period in the middle of the day gets to 30% but I get it up to 85-90% at night with the heavy misting and fogger. Fogger runs about 7 hours. I found that adding a 10 minute mist at 4pm kept the humidity boosted (50-60%) until night.
  • Plants - Yup. Pathos, Draceana, more pathos, bromeliad, orchid, prayer plant, ficus, triostar stromanthe. She has a lay bin too, but preferred the pathos when she layed.
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? The cage is in my home office, where I spend a good amount of time. It is in the corner of the room away from any direct sunlight, the vents are closed off in this room -- and it is not in front of them either way. The cage is on top of 1 tier of garage shelving, so the top of the cage is above my head when I stand in front of it.
  • Location - Colorado.

Current Problem - She has missed her food -- twice now, in a week. She shoots and misses, Her mouth and tongue appear fine. Tongue shoots normally -- but I was reading on here that missing is a sign of a problem, likely with supplementation. When she was young, she got calc no d3 at every feeding, Minerall indoor every two weeks and calc w/d3 every two weeks. When she appeared to be gravid her first time, vet suggested I switch off everything and just do Repashy Calc Plus at every staple feeding (dusted on crickets and silks, not bsfl or treat worms). At the time I was worried it would be too much d3, but he suggested it would help her with her egg production. I have been doing that for 9 months. She laid her first clutch with no problems in January.

About a year ago -- I was dusting her feeders with Calc Plus and bee pollen -- I noticed she developed a small swelling on her neck, which I am pretty sure was an edema due to too much of something, so I stopped using bee pollen as dusting and started using it as gut load. Her edema went away within two weeks. I see a little tiny bit coming back -- so I'm wondering if she is getting too much d3 and A in the calc plus. Is there something off in my husbandry for this to be only coming up now, after almost a year of this supplementation?

My girl is very very sweet and so chill and nice. I put the down payment on another cham from Chromatic, (just spent hours trimming pond foam on his to be enclosure today) but I need to make sure I get her 100% before bringing another one. Wanted to get another one cause I love her so much and felt like since i've had her for a year and she seems to be doing great it felt right, then she started missing her food, and thanks to this forum -- I see that's not ok.

Thank you!

*Photos*
Photo of her was taken Yesterday. Photos of her enclosure were taken a few moments ago. Her lay bin is out because I was picking out bits of shed.I start the fogger right before I go to sleep. View attachment 236942View attachment 236943View attachment 236944
I'm going to leave the husbandry issues to a more experiences keeper for this one, but I wanted to know where you got the shelving units you're using to raise your enclosure???
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
I saw those when I was looking for shelves and didnt think to just break them down in to 2 smaller shelves. Genius!
I like them because I have used the rest of the set as shelving un the closet to store her stuff, and even had one left over for the garden shed. I had no idea how much shelving I needed!
 

CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
This is not the first time I've heard of Repashy Cal Plus being linked to a possible edema. In this weeks episode on Chameleonbreeder podcast a breeder in Canada was also having an issue with this. I myself have always been skeptical of it for an every feeding chameleon supplement but I digress. I personally use Repashy SuperCal NoD every feeding, Repashy Vitamin A Plus once every 3 weeks, Herptavite once every 3 weeks, and ExoTerra Calcium +D3 once every 3 weeks. That way I'm in full control of when my boys get each vitamin. It could be too much D3 since you also have her under a 36" T5HO with a 10.0 bulb on a 24" enclosure too. I only use 5.0 with a 24" fixture myself. My suggestion is to possibly swap out your bulb with a 5.0 or 6% and switch back to normal dusting schedule you had her on before that seemed to work well for her. But also adding just a drop of Retinol Vit A gel cap on 1 feeder once a month. Vit A is pretty important for females when it comes to laying those clutches.
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
This is not the first time I've heard of Repashy Cal Plus being linked to a possible edema. In this weeks episode on Chameleonbreeder podcast a breeder in Canada was also having an issue with this. I myself have always been skeptical of it for an every feeding chameleon supplement but I digress. I personally use Repashy SuperCal NoD every feeding, Repashy Vitamin A Plus once every 3 weeks, Herptavite once every 3 weeks, and ExoTerra Calcium +D3 once every 3 weeks. That way I'm in full control of when my boys get each vitamin. It could be too much D3 since you also have her under a 36" T5HO with a 10.0 bulb on a 24" enclosure too. I only use 5.0 with a 24" fixture myself. My suggestion is to possibly swap out your bulb with a 5.0 or 6% and switch back to normal dusting schedule you had her on before that seemed to work well for her. But also adding just a drop of Retinol Vit A gel cap on 1 feeder once a month. Vit A is pretty important for females when it comes to laying those clutches.
Thank you so much! I will go back, and order a new bulb and the vit A right now.
 

CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you so much! I will go back, and order a new bulb and the vit A right now.
It's worth a shot to try I think. I'm no vet. If the problem continues I would suggest seeing a true exotic vet. What you could do to is order a 48" UVB hood if your going to put your new cham right next to your female. You could just run the one over both enclosures.
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
It's worth a shot to try I think. I'm no vet. If the problem continues I would suggest seeing a true exotic vet. What you could do to is order a 48" UVB hood if your going to put your new cham right next to your female. You could just run the one over both enclosures.
That's a really good idea. I am going to take some measurements today to see if I can out them right next to eachother and keep them both out of the window . Thanks so much for your help!
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
It's worth a shot to try I think. I'm no vet. If the problem continues I would suggest seeing a true exotic vet. What you could do to is order a 48" UVB hood if your going to put your new cham right next to your female. You could just run the one over both enclosures.

I realize I have a lot to learn about UVB right now but one last question-- if I run a 48" across them both--still use the T5HO 5.0 and not 10.0, right?

I could not find a 5.0 for my 34" hood so I could go either way rn-- 48" or 24".
 

CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I realize I have a lot to learn about UVB right now but one last question-- if I run a 48" across them both--still use the T5HO 5.0 and not 10.0, right?

I could not find a 5.0 for my 34" hood so I could go either way rn-- 48" or 24".
I would still use a 5.0 ZooMed or 6% Arcadia. 10.0 or 12% is really only recommended for Panthers if you have a very large enclosure or really densly packed with foliage or both. Of course taking them outside a few times a week for real sunlight never hurts as well.
 

Graves923

Chameleon Enthusiast
Repashy calcium plus Lo D can be used lightly with ever feeding. I actually just made the switch to it recently to eliminate the 3 different supplements I was using.
 

dshuld

Chameleon Enthusiast

Sorry, didn't get the notification for the tag on this one :(. I had issues with Repashy cal + LoD in some of my chams early in my cham keeping journey though. Three of my first four (five if you count the female I picked up for @Matt Vanilla Gorilla back then) were starting to get edema with LoD use at every feeding. I was new but read what I could everywhere and thought the 1 shot solution was better for me. I stumbled across a thread in the original ccc group that mentioned the issue being related to repashy by several breeders there.

They recommended to the op of that thread to stop supplements and give extra mistings for a week or two and watch to see if it cleared. I did as they recommended to that person and saw it go away in my chams. Since then it's been a once a month type supplement for me. I've stuck to minerall outdoor/ indoor, reptivite and bee pollen for the most part. I do swap outdoor for zoo med cal wo/ d3 once and a while. Occasionally one reptivite feeding was swapped with LoD while I used up what I had left of it.

The strange part for me with LoD at every use was one of the three effected was a clutch mate to one not effected. That kind of left me scratching my head back then and still kind of does now tbh. But, one thing it does tell me is not every cham reacts to the repashy line the same way, even if they are clutch mates.
 

Rst_Cham

Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry, didn't get the notification for the tag on this one :(. I had issues with Repashy cal + LoD in some of my chams early in my cham keeping journey though. Three of my first four (five if you count the female I picked up for @Matt Vanilla Gorilla back then) were starting to get edema with LoD use at every feeding. I was new but read what I could everywhere and thought the 1 shot solution was better for me. I stumbled across a thread in the original ccc group that mentioned the issue being related to repashy by several breeders there.

They recommended to the op of that thread to stop supplements and give extra mistings for a week or two and watch to see if it cleared. I did as they recommended to that person and saw it go away in my chams. Since then it's been a once a month type supplement for me. I've stuck to minerall outdoor/ indoor, reptivite and bee pollen for the most part. I do swap outdoor for zoo med cal wo/ d3 once and a while. Occasionally one reptivite feeding was swapped with LoD while I used up what I had left of it.

The strange part for me with LoD at every use was one of the three effected was a clutch mate to one not effected. That kind of left me scratching my head back then and still kind of does now tbh. But, one thing it does tell me is not every cham reacts to the repashy line the same way, even if they are clutch mates.
Interesting. What kind of schedule are you using the Miner-all indoor vrs outdoor?
 

dshuld

Chameleon Enthusiast
Interesting. What kind of schedule are you using the Miner-all indoor vrs outdoor?

That depends on what I've got going on each week between stuff to do and weather. If I can get everyone outside for several hours a week then they get outdoor twice and half the third feeding will get indoor (unless it's reptivite day as I've switched to reptivite with d3). If it's a crazy busy week and lots of rain they get indoor for three feedings (unless it's reptivite week).

Something to keep in mind is d3 %. Miner-all has the least of those discussed and was, in the company's words, designed for animals that don't regularly recieve unfiltered natural sunlight. This time of year is pretty close to that for me unfortunately. Between the obscene heat, tons of rain and my work schedule my chams don't get as much natural sun as they do when it's cooler and less rain. Anyways, d3 %:

Miner-all indoor - Vitamin D3 4,400 I.U.

Repashy calcium + LoD - Vitamin D min. 8,000 IU/lb

Reptivite w/d3 - vitamin d3 (min) 22,907 iu/kg

Repashy calcium + - Vitamin D min. 20,000 IU/lb
 
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