acuminatus,viridis ,kerstenii,spinosus...

[kameleons jvo]

In about a month i will recieve a big Tanzania shipment with several nice trioceros and kinyongia species but also several pigmy species.
I can send them to the US please let me know what is in your interest and what is the price of these(regular )in the US
We can offer:
acuminatus
boulengeri
moyeri
nchisiensis
kerstenii
uluguruensis
spinosus
temporalis
viridis

Regards
Jurgen

 

[Chris Anderson]

In about a month i will recieve a big Tanzania shipment with several nice trioceros and kinyongia species but also several pigmy species.
I can send them to the US please let me know what is in your interest and what is the price of these(regular )in the US
We can offer:
acuminatus
boulengeri
moyeri
nchisiensis
kerstenii
uluguruensis
spinosus
temporalis
viridis

Regards
Jurgen

Out of curiosity, how are you getting Rhampholeon spinosus from Tanzania if there is no quota for them?

Chris

 

[kameleons jvo]

Out of curiosity, how are you getting Rhampholeon spinosus from Tanzania if there is no quota for them?

Chris

Our exporter offered them to us,correct me if i'm wrong but do they have a small quota?

 

[Chris Anderson]

Our exporter offered them to us,correct me if i'm wrong but do they have a small quota?

Nope, there has not been a quota for them since 2011. You can see the quotas here:

http://cites.org/eng/resources/quotas/index.php

Chris

 

[kameleons jvo]

Nope, there has not been a quota for them since 2011. You can see the quotas here:

http://cites.org/eng/resources/quotas/index.php

Chris

Thanks for informing my about this Chris!
Still strange that exporters still offer them without any problem,or the don't know this or they just don't care....

 

[Chris Anderson]

Thanks for informing my about this Chris!
Still strange that exporters still offer them without any problem,or the don't know this or they just don't care....

What they are doing is ignoring that they are a CITES listed species and simply exporting them as a Rhampholeon species (without any CITES documents). In general, Rhampholeon species are not CITES listed and thus, in addition to not requiring CITES permits, are not subject to Tanzania's annual CITES export quotas.

The issue, however, is that CITES has not recognized the reclassification of this species to Rhampholeon spinosus, so for CITES purposes, they are still considered Bradypodion spinosum and still very much a CITES species (See the UNEP-WCMC and CITES Species+ profile: http://www.speciesplus.net/#/taxon_concepts/9976/legal), as it should be given that it is Endangered according to the IUCN Red List (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/176323/0). Even if CITES were to have accepted the taxonomic change of this species to Rhampholeon spinosus, however, all that would mean is that you could no longer say no Rhampholeon species were CITES listed, as a species does not lose its CITES status with a taxonomic change (can you imagine how often rhinos and elephants would be reclassified if that were the case?).

Whether these exporters are doing this intentionally (knowingly) or unintentionally (not knowing the taxonomic history and protection status) isn't clear. Its success, however, depends on enforcement agencies not knowing any better, and more importantly, importers who either also don't know any better or are willing to violate international laws for their own greed and in the process risk their entire shipments being confiscated. Obviously you now know the legal issue of importing this species without CITES documents.

Chris

 

[kameleons jvo]

What they are doing is ignoring that they are a CITES listed species and simply exporting them as a Rhampholeon species (without any CITES documents). In general, Rhampholeon species are not CITES listed and thus, in addition to not requiring CITES permits, are not subject to Tanzania's annual CITES export quotas.

The issue, however, is that CITES has not recognized the reclassification of this species to Rhampholeon spinosus, so for CITES purposes, they are still considered Bradypodion spinosum and still very much a CITES species (See the UNEP-WCMC and CITES Species+ profile: http://www.speciesplus.net/#/taxon_concepts/9976/legal), as it should be given that it is Endangered according to the IUCN Red List (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/176323/0). Even if CITES were to have accepted the taxonomic change of this species to Rhampholeon spinosus, however, all that would mean is that you could no longer say no Rhampholeon species were CITES listed, as a species does not lose its CITES status with a taxonomic change (can you imagine how often rhinos and elephants would be reclassified if that were the case?).

Whether these exporters are doing this intentionally (knowingly) or unintentionally (not knowing the taxonomic history and protection status) isn't clear. Its success, however, depends on enforcement agencies not knowing any better, and more importantly, importers who either also don't know any better or are willing to violate international laws for their own greed and in the process risk their entire shipments being confiscated. Obviously you now know the legal issue of importing this species without CITES documents.

Chris

Thanks a loth Chris for this very clear explanation!
I was not aware of it i know 7 maybe 8 importers who are importing them with hundreds each year in Europe without any problem that's why i was not sure about the status.
Thanks again
Jurgen

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jurgen

Absolutely stay away from buying the Rhampholeon spinosus. As Chris stated they are listed as an IUCN Red List Endangered species and to buy them undermines the whole CITES conservation program to restore habitats and populations of this species. This Rhampholeon species we should not see in the hobby until populations have recovered and is delisted to a less threatened listing, which does happen.

More concerning though as Chris pointed out is that this species Rhampholeon spinosus is clearly not listed as a CITES quota species from Tanzania. The fact that many importers have them on their import lists and appear to be ignoring the CITES quotas means there is a huge job ahead of CITES and European customs officials to regulate trade of CITES chameleons quotas. Even non CITES chameleon species that are from other countries other than Tanzania, such as endangered chameleon species from Madagascar (long known) such as Furcifer minor, Furcifer balteatus and Calumma globifer are similar concerns. The ideals should work (updated and conservative CITES quotas) the regulation just has to be more effectively enforced. However regulated trade is the way to go as unregulated trade is a recipe for disaster. With regulated trade along with continued habitat conservation populations can be monitored and can eventually recover. Which in the long run conserves these species in their native habitat and in populations large enough for some exports with conservative quotas.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich