A very sad day-breeding mishap?

[Julirs]

I am looking for what could have happened...
Nippy my Nosy female and a very wonderful male suitor were put together for breeding today. They started to mate and were left alone for about an hour. She was dead on the bottom of the cage with tongue hanging out and eyes bulging.
What could have happened? No obvious trauma. Any ideas?

 

[Vegas Chad]

?!?!?!?!?!? Jim took photos one time of a male killing a female... It is possible that he got over aggressive and bit her in a vital area. Sorry for your loss, that really sucks!!!

 

[fox3060]

I'm very sorry for your loss what was her health condition like with in the weeks prior to this mishap?

 

[Julirs]

She was in perfect health. Always in great condition.

 

[Dankmeleon]

it was pretty hot today...

 

[Champhibians]

I had a male ambilobe bite a female on the top of the head and eyes. Threw her to the bottom of the cage and she died. Everything seemed fine, then it happend to fast for me to even stop it.

 

[BocaJan]

So sorry for your loss Julirs. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Glittergloomgirl]

They were inside in the airconditioning....

 

[VerteX]

Sorry to hear that Juli...
I've known nippy for a long time. I guess privacy for chams may not be an option anymore.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

That is awful. I am so sorry to hear about this. I can't even imagine how shocked and horrified you must have been.

I have a male Sambava who started to rough up a receptive female Sambava one time. Fortunately, I was there and able to separate them before it went to far. He had climbed on top of her and was aggressively head butting her, for no apparent reason. It wasn't like she was trying to resist him.

Someone had a video, maybe on youtube of a case where 2 chams were placed together to breed and the owner left the room. he returned to find the male had the female in his mouth, by her midsection, and was thumping her up and down. She had been dead for sometime. The film sickened me, but I learned it could happen.

Thank you for letting us know about this awful experience. I have left breeders alone recently, forgetting about that video I saw. Now I realize what a risk it is. It's just that it's boring watching the two just lay there for a couple of hours. Even if you're across the room cleaning enclosures or mopping up, would a person be able to respond in time? It's possible there was nothing you could have done if you'd been there.

I cannot imagine what happens inside the brain of these males. Procreation instincts do them no good if they kill the recipient of their sperm. Must be a short circuit somewhere.

 

[VerteX]

"No obvious trauma" stated by Juli is contradicting to what we may have been guessing here.
Juli: I know this may feel like putting salt on an open wound but if necropsy is an option, you may be able to learn the cause of death.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Suffocation?

"No obvious trauma" stated by Juli is contradicting to what we may have been guessing here.
Juli: I know this may feel like putting salt on an open wound but if necropsy is an option, you may be able to learn the cause of death.

That's true. Even the claw marks a male makes on a female during normal mating are obvious immediately afterwards. I should think a lethal attack would show too.

I have a theory. We mated a pair here a few months ago. She was well into her eggs by the time they mated. We had tried earlier to no avail. Well, to get to the point, when the male mounted her he pressed her into the vine quite deeply, and I had concerns that she would not be able to breathe. Having eggs already limits the lung capacity. She shifted her weight to the side and created some breathing room for herself. This mating I stood by and watched very carefully. it did occur to me that day that she could suffocate. I wonder if that's what happened here? Eyes bulging and tongue hanging out sounds like suffocation or strangulation.

 

[Cainschams]

Very sorry to hear that Julirs My male panther really got aggressive last time I tried to mate mine. It wasnt to the point where I was going to seperate them but almost. She got a few dings from fingernails. Im not sure what a bruise or say a red mark on a human would look like on a cham but is it possible that he strangled her while mating. It almost seemed like that could happen last time mine mated. Again very sorry to hear that Nippy was a very nice looking girl.

 

[lbesok]

Julie, I'm very sorry to hear about Nippy, she was such a beautiful girl.

 

[Julirs]

Thank you all for the kind words. We are going to try to get a necropsy done. She was the sweetest chameleon-and I will miss her deeply.

 

[Nicodemayo]

Thats very sad julirs. Sorry for your loss i couldn't imagine how blown away and shocked you were when you found her. Rip Nippy

 

[leanna156]

I'm sorry for you loss, Juli. Nippy was very cute.

 

[Kat77]

Juli, I am so sorry. That little photo of her brought tears on. I hope you feel better soon.

 

[xoiceox]

OMG I am so sorry <3

 

[mika]

Julirs, I am so sorry to hear about Nippy. She does look like a very sweet chameleon.

It didn't even cross my mind that mating chams could become that agressive.