a little in over my head

[GSXRtherapy]

My wife decided on Saturday that she wanted a Jackson chameleon. I understanding there is no such thing as "just picking one up" with any reptile, I warned her she should do her research first. (Have ball python age 3 so familiar with temp gradients.)
Well we ended up getting a female, she was covering herself with substrate in store. Initially we kept her in a exo-terra 24x24x36, After 24 hours I realized she was highly stressed and trying to bite during feeding.
This morning I said to return her. The manager claimed she looks fine to him, but my wife noticed this morning when she went to put her in the carrier that her mouth looked like it had off white patches inside, and seemed to be doing mouth breathing. At the store my wife says she began "foaming at the mouth" (Mouth rot?) I think my wife slightly exaggerated.
Long story short we had decided to go to a different store and found a juvinile male. We washed all terrarium parts with at some warm water and picked up a new hibiscus.
(Questions
-Do you think we caused the females problems with the temporary caging? We used lights,simular humidity and temps (some standing water due to glass.)
-Is there is a risk to him still? Any thing to watch for?
-He is drinking/deficating, they said he's in shed. He has some sluff on his head
should that concern me? (store assistant was not very helpful.)
-Gut-loading, I know they need this, however it is new to me, as my ball python only needs mice, no special supplements. The local Petsmart says they gut load all their crickets, but didn't say with what. Are they safe to use? I use the flukers yellow calcium and water jelly.

New Cage setup:
large reptibreeze screen cage
Monsoon rs400
Hibiscus with bamboo & flunker pearches added
Exo-terra hygrometer/ thermometer
Two more temp gages one inside on wet/cold side one outside below lights
Lights 1 reptisun 5.0 and a "daytime" incandescent bulb(we have a 60w sunglow but it was creating temps in mid to low 90s.)
Temps at top 80 on cold/wet 85 on warm dry, 68 at top of planter.
Humidity 67-90 with 4 hour cycles 2min duration.
(sorry for the poor format, I was using my smartphone before.)

 

[Wykd]

Welcome to the board, and good luck with your new cham!

If you are worried you can put it all in the shower and all hot water and steam it clean, or mix up some white vinegar and spray/clean it all up. The plants you can do a 10% bleach solution and mist/dip them also.

 

[Swayne8998]

Are they horns? Lol. No, just kidding. That's probably some of the shed. Looks like you're doing good!

 

[PantherEnvy]

What happened to the female?

 

[GSXRtherapy]

The manager said he would take her to the vet, and call us with an offer for repurchase. As you can see what our cage setup is (all but lights, purchased just before getting him) we can't afford another 400 setup and 120 to repurchase her. I don't think it would be best to buy her again and try to keep her with him for two reasons. 1) I don't want to support poor care of reptiles. 2) We picked up a few cham books and most say not keep more than 1 per enclouser or they could kill each other. (and I still wouldn't want to put him in danger.) I'll put up a few pics in a bit.

 

[GSXRtherapy]

1 more question today, Do Jacksons eat anything besides insects? we got mealworms, and crickets. Our books are not very clear on this.
You should be able to see 3 pics of the setup and 1 of him. My concern is the shed, should we just wait a week for him to sluff it off normally? or does he need any help. ( I think they had his humidity too low, he had been in store for about a week.)https://plus.google.com/photos/112078790320962996850/albums/5757795035412870209?authkey=CPzAxffTtKq-Sg

 

[Kibu]

Judging by the semi-fuzzy picture that is not what I call a juvenile male. Ur doing a good job so far, just remember Jackson's are very unforgiving when it comes to supplementation, oh and don't base ur opinion on what the guys at a commercial pet store tell u. There shouldn't even have been substrate in that fmale jax's enclosur.

 

[pigglett79]

My Jackson had a shed stuck on the top of his head for a couple weeks. It eventually will fall off on its own. I feed mine Dubia roaches, hornworms, silkworms and meal worms. Meal worms are rare though. I took up breeding the roaches, hornworms and silkworms to save money. You can gut load crickets with greens, apples, oranges etc. or purchase a commercial gut load. Just be sure it is for gut loading and not just a cricket food. You definitely want to vary his diet. Mulberry farms and smallpetfeeders.com have a wide variety of feeder insects.

 

[Kibu]

FYI if u don't allready know the gut loading is when u feed ur feeders nutritious substances at least 24 hours before feeding them off for maximum benefit.

 

[Elizadolots]

Do you think we caused the females problems with the temporary caging? We used lights,simular humidity and temps (some standing water due to glass.)

No. She came to you with problems.

He is drinking/deficating, they said he's in shed. He has some sluff on his head
should that concern me?

Drinking and pooping are two excellent signs! Left over shed is not a concern unless it surrounds a growing limb or tail. If it bothers you, try misting more (showering)...sometimes that helps. If not, it should come off with the next shed.

The local Petsmart says they gut load all their crickets, but didn't say with what. Are they safe to use? I use the flukers yellow calcium and water jelly

Initially, go ahead and feed the Petsmart crickets. In the next few weeks you'll want to start buying larger numbers and feeding them yourself. You should feed them food, not just supplements. Sandrachameleon wrote the "go to" blog on nutritional foods for gutloading feeders. The water jelly is used by a lot here and seems to do a good job with hydrating the crickets. Make sure you don't let any get in the cage with the chameleon. If the crystals dry out they present a real danger to the chameleon if he accidentally eats one.

I don't think it would be best to buy her again and try to keep her with him for two reasons. 1) I don't want to support poor care of reptiles. 2) We picked up a few cham books and most say not keep more than 1 per enclouser or they could kill each other. (and I still wouldn't want to put him in danger.)

Both very good reasons. I can tell you're going to be a very good chameleon parent. I will note that some people can keep multiple chameleons together successfully, it's not a certain "they'll kill each other" thing, but it's definitely something that only an expert should try.

Do Jacksons eat anything besides insects? we got mealworms, and crickets.

They primarily eat insects. Many chameleons will eat greens and some will eat fruit. You can try offering that after he settles in. The fact that they will eat greens makes it very important that you only use plants that are safe for him to eat.

Judging by the semi-fuzzy picture that is not what I call a juvenile male.

I agree, more like an adult. Maybe he's just hitting adulthood. That makes the retained shed on his head nothing to be concerned about as he's not going to be doing any fast growing.

 

[GSXRtherapy]

Thanks for the resources, and tips for gut loading. So I know I need to read up more on supplementation and gut loading. Should I always use calcium? and is it ok to give crickets kale, approcot ... (is there any recommended gutload?) I can't really find any info in the books, so that's why I'm asking questions here. I've read a few blog posts on supplements but all the 400,000UI/lb .... gets confusing, I know I could potentally over dose him if I use too much. (is there recommendation on this?

 

[Elizadolots]

Thanks for the resources, and tips for gut loading. So I know I need to read up more on supplementation and gut loading. Should I always use calcium? and is it ok to give crickets kale, approcot ... (is there any recommended gutload?) I can't really find any info in the books, so that's why I'm asking questions here. I've read a few blog posts on supplements but all the 400,000UI/lb .... gets confusing, I know I could potentally over dose him if I use too much. (is there recommendation on this?

The standard answer on calcium is yes, use it every feeding. However, those who raise a lot of Jacksons say they do not need as much supplementation, so a couple of times a week is okay. You'll have to decide for yourself on that. One thing: just make sure your aren't feeding ghost white crickets. You really only want a pinch of calcium spread amongst them. If you are having problems with that, then pull 2 crickets out and dust those and only those for every feeding.

Both Kale and apricot are good for as part of a well rounded gutload.

What you might want to do it get 2 containers. Your main cricket keeper, and just feed them store bought cricket food and a smaller "gutload chamber" you use for "tomorrow's feeders"...put them in and give them the riches...kale, oranges, basil, carrots. Remember that the food you give the feeders is what you are giving your chameleon, so try to vary that gutload just as you would vary your child's diet. You wouldn't feed your child only carrots every day.

 

[GSXRtherapy]

Are there any fruits, veggies to avoid giving the crickets for now? I know about the every other week deal with vit A and calcium absorbtion. (my understanding is vit a can impead or neutralize the benefit of the very necessary calcium.)

***Thank you so much, I was wondering about dusting and gut loading, and how long the gut load should be before feeding. My wife is going to call the vet tomorrow for an initial visit for the Jackson and advise on diet. (Motto is very adventurous in his new enclosure) , and a follow up for our ball python.

The standard answer on calcium is yes, use it every feeding. However, those who raise a lot of Jacksons say they do not need as much supplementation, so a couple of times a week is okay. You'll have to decide for yourself on that. One thing: just make sure your aren't feeding ghost white crickets. You really only want a pinch of calcium spread amongst them. If you are having problems with that, then pull 2 crickets out and dust those and only those for every feeding.

Both Kale and apricot are good for as part of a well rounded gutload.

What you might want to do it get 2 containers. Your main cricket keeper, and just feed them store bought cricket food and a smaller "gutload chamber" you use for "tomorrow's feeders"...put them in and give them the riches...kale, oranges, basil, carrots. Remember that the food you give the feeders is what you are giving your chameleon, so try to vary that gutload just as you would vary your child's diet. You wouldn't feed your child only carrots every day.

 

[Elizadolots]

Are there any fruits, veggies to avoid giving the crickets for now? I know about the every other week deal with vit A and calcium absorbtion. (my understanding is vit a can impead or neutralize the benefit of the very necessary calcium.)

I linked Sandrachameleon's blog on nutrition...run through that and see if there's anything she says is a big no no...as far as I know as long as you vary the food, you should be okay.

Vitamin A is tricky. They need it for good eye health, too much impedes calcium absorption. With a Jackson's, it's probably better to lean toward less rather than more.

 

[mirrinias]

I work for petsmart...when they say they "gut-load" their crickets, they really mean they're just feeding them those orange cubes. I'm a brand new cham owner myself, so I don't want to seem too pretentious by giving advice, but any crickets coming from petsmart will need to be gut-loaded by you.

Take anything a petsmart employee says about chams with a grain of salt, and don't follow their recommendations until you have verified it with the info on this board first. I have found these forums to be very trustworthy and helpful. Once in a while, you'll get a petsmart employee with their own cham, but 99% of the employees will only know the absolute basics of chams eating live insects and needing a heat lamp.

I just really hope I'm there to help when the store sells our cham.

 

[Hoj]

Hello there and welcome!! just thought i would attach my care sheet for montane chams. Alot of it is very similar for Jax.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/hoj/634-montane-chameleon-care-info.html
biggest difference I can think of is temps can be a bit higher with the Jax.

 

[GSXRtherapy]

No offense intended, I am always Leary of all pet store employees, as the employee is responsible for assisting customers, but I've always believed it's important for the pet owner to take responsibility for themselves regarding education about their animal. Hence that's why I joined this forum, to hear from owners who are enthusiastic about their chameleons

I work for petsmart...when they say they "gut-load" their crickets, they really mean they're just feeding them those orange cubes. I'm a brand new cham owner myself, so I don't want to seem too pretentious by giving advice, but any crickets coming from petsmart will need to be gut-loaded by you.

Take anything a petsmart employee says about chams with a grain of salt, and don't follow their recommendations until you have verified it with the info on this board first. I have found these forums to be very trustworthy and helpful. Once in a while, you'll get a petsmart employee with their own cham, but 99% of the employees will only know the absolute basics of chams eating live insects and needing a heat lamp.

I just really hope I'm there to help when the store sells our cham.

 

[mirrinias]

No offense intended, I am always Leary of all pet store employees, as the employee is responsible for assisting customers, but I've always believed it's important for the pet owner to take responsibility for themselves regarding education about their animal. Hence that's why I joined this forum, to hear from owners who are enthusiastic about their chameleons

None taken! I think it's responsible to leery of advice taken from a pet store employee, even though I am one. For example, I know next to nothing about fish, but I'm somehow expected to help people with them. I personally will tell a person I don't know the answer, let me find someone who does. And yeah, I love this forum.

 

[Grim Crow]

Something that made my life way easier, chamalot chameleons king kricket feast. I was leary about creating my own gutload for the crickets I keep for fear of screwing it up. I don't mean to sound like an advertisement but, I've used their cricket gutload since she was 4 months old (year and a half now). I have had one scare with my chameleon, but it was very recent and was a result of my not noticing she was ready to lay eggs again. So it wasn't related to the cricket gutload. I'd recommend it to anyone who wants a cricket gutload without making their own. They breed their own chameleons and i've only heard good things about them, so i'm sure they know what they are doing. Also about vitamin A, get a supplement that provides beta carotene, not vit a. I'm not a scientist or expert cham owner but from what I have read, supplementing vit A can be very dangerous and lead to hypervitaminosis. If you supplement with beta carotene instead of vit a, the chameleon makes just the right amount of vit a that it needs for itself.

here is a link to the gutload i use: http://chamalotchameleons.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&Itemid=9

just scroll to the bottom.

 

[GSXRtherapy]

Thanks Grim Crow, I'm a bit reluctant to make my own. I got rep Cal with d3 (pink label ultra fine phos free) for x2 weekly, and zilla multivitamin for x2 monthly, and flunkers orange cubes for basic gut loading. And use flunkers water gel calcium fortified for every day. Does that sound OK?