A few Q's on Saline Solution.

[Lizardlover]

So, recently one of my chameleons has been keeping one of her eyes closed alot, so I figured Id try out the saline solution thing, never done it before, my dad, a fireman, told me he could get a bag of it at his work but Im positive they dont use it for eyes there , is it all the same stuff or should I buy the kind specifically for contact lenses/eyes? I also do not have a curved tipped syringe but the syringes I do have can make a tight stream/jet of water, would this work out the same? Am I supposed to literally shoot it right into the shut eyelid and let it fill up? I know there have been tons of threads about this lately but this is yet another.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Danny,

Before getting into eye rinsing products, I wanted to note that chameleon eye closure can be caused by debris in the eye or an eye infection but more often it is a symptom of an underlying, serious health problem. Think of a chameleon closing an eye as sort of like a human wincing in pain, closing their eyes. For a chameleon, eye closure tells the keeper to go back and re-exam every aspect of their husbandry. Hydration, food, supplements, lighting, temperature, humidity, plants, location, stress levels etc. all need to be reviewed. Troubles may have been brewing for many months before eye closure starts. You are in real trouble if eye closure starts with one eye and then goes to both eyes closing . I know of one keeper's panther that had been keeping one eye mostly closed for months. I got the first call when both eyes had been closed for several days. He was dead a few hours later. A necropsy showed that the liver was totally shot.

Here's what the keeper said:

"His symptoms leading up to his death were: closing his right eye most of the time for two-three months prior to his death and then two-three days prior to his death he opened the right eye and closed the left eye pretty much from that point on until he perished. He did not act ill until the day before he died. Two days before he died, he ate two super-worms and the night before he died he regurgitated one of them."

The keeper's "miss" here is that the symptom was the eye closure 3 months before his death . Could he have been returned to perfect health if the eye closure was acted upon at day one? I'd say that there was a chance. He was fed only crickets and superworms his whole life and maybe a change in diet at the onset of the symptoms might have helped. Too often, when eye closure is the symptom, it is a symptom of a serious health condition, hidden by the chameleon (or missed by the keeper) that has progressed too far to turn around .

Back to your question :

The saline solutions that have been mentioned regarding rinsing an eye are specifically "buffered" with certain chemicals etc. to balance their pH, among other things, so that they don't sting and are safe to use with eyes. If you are buying a saline solution at your local pharmacy, don't hesitate to ask the pharmacist which one is safe to use with eyes. I don't think you want the contact lens cleaner products, for example. I read online that the ones that say "for sensitive eyes" use chemicals that may be "easier" on the eyes too.

Example: http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/catalog/s...26&productId=458126&navAction=jump&navCount=3

 

[Lizardlover]

I am confident that it does not have to do with husbandry, and being that I have 7 different feeders options on a daily basis I dont think it is food either. I just acquired her (female Oustaleti) 16 days ago, since she arrived she has been rubbing her eye on branches and closing it periodically, recently she has been shutting it for most of the day, when she is feeding, after the mistking is finished misting her, and when she is especially alert (me near her cage etc.) she tends to keep it open, but I can tell that it is hurt because she usually keeps it not open all the way, you can tell somethings bugging her eye, i have been misting alot because of this, but I will try flushing it with water before I decide to get into saline solution, she eats and drinks normally. It was a little bit colder than usual the past two days that I noticed it was the worst, but today and this weekend it will be back to the temps she is used to.

 

[james L]

You should go see a vet. Just dont start treating animals on your own with products your not even sure of. Like Dave said you may never know whats truly wrong until its to late.

 

[summoner12]

I am confident that it does not have to do with husbandry, and being that I have 7 different feeders options on a daily basis I dont think it is food either. I just acquired her (female Oustaleti) 16 days ago, since she arrived she has been rubbing her eye on branches and closing it periodically, recently she has been shutting it for most of the day, when she is feeding, after the mistking is finished misting her, and when she is especially alert (me near her cage etc.) she tends to keep it open, but I can tell that it is hurt because she usually keeps it not open all the way, you can tell somethings bugging her eye, i have been misting alot because of this, but I will try flushing it with water before I decide to get into saline solution, she eats and drinks normally. It was a little bit colder than usual the past two days that I noticed it was the worst, but today and this weekend it will be back to the temps she is used to.

I think saline is a better route. Just ask the pharmacist what brand has 'less stuff' in it. You don't want a bunch of chemicals. just plain ole saline. This is what Dr. Greek has told me.

Dave you had another post where you spoke more specifics on what kind of saline to get.... I'll dig it up, unless this date is out of date?

 

[Lizardlover]

You should go see a vet. Just dont start treating animals on your own with products your not even sure of. Like Dave said you may never know whats truly wrong until its to late.

Saline solution is to flush out eyes,and is recommended for this kind of thing, im not treating with products Im not sure of, Im just making sure what the right type is. Why spend 100+ dollars when I could fix it myself, its not like shes dying? I know it has nothing to do with husbandry.

 

[Lizardlover]

I think saline is a better route. Just ask the pharmacist what brand has 'less stuff' in it. You don't want a bunch of chemicals. just plain ole saline. This is what Dr. Greek has told me.

Dave you had another post where you spoke more specifics on what kind of saline to get.... I'll dig it up, unless this date is out of date?

already got the saline, its just plain saline, nothing added to it. my main question was just about administering it.

 

[summoner12]

already got the saline, its just plain saline, nothing added to it. my main question was just about administering it.

oh.. in that case....

hold the cham steady where he can't whip around. You don't want the head to move while you do this. The way Dr. Greek showed me was to place a towel down (folded over a couple of times so it's padded and will absorb the run off). Put the cham on it's side hold it so it can't move and ten inject the saline into the eye causing it to swell with the fluid. Be gentle but use enough pressure so that it goes into the eye turret and fills it up. You will feel the cham's nasty thoughts of plotting it's revenge for holding them down.... but the cham will thank you later when it can see properly. Do this to both sides and maybe repeat daily or twice a day depending on how fast it gets crusty again. You should also use terramycin if it is getting custy. If it is crusty then you most likely have an infection. You could also have a vit A. deficiency as well. I would add one or two gel pills of fish oil to your crickets feeding dish so they eat the oil with the gut load. To be more precise you can just puncture the gel pill and put a drop on a couple of feeders and feed them to her. just don't over do it, they can OD on Vit A.

 

[summoner12]

Here is the post Dave made ealier this month: Saline Solution

 

[Lizardlover]

Its not crusty at all, does cricket crack not have enough vitamin A? I suppliment with all the three your supposed to and then every other vitamin dusting I use Miner-ALL O.

 

[Cainschams]

I highly doubt it is a vit A problem. I know this animal has been fed a baby veiled or two in the past. I post this only to help try and narrow down what could possibly be the problem. I hope people will refrain from their opinions and not get off topic of Dannys problem.

I would just try the saline solution and go from there. I would venture to guess something happened when it was shipped. I know where the animal comes from and know it would not have been shipped if there was a noticeable problem. Hopefully it is just a minor irritation.

 

[Lizardlover]

I highly doubt it is a vit A problem. I know this animal has been fed a baby veiled or two in the past. I post this only to help try and narrow down what could possibly be the problem. I hope people will refrain from their opinions and not get off topic of Dannys problem.

I would just try the saline solution and go from there. I would venture to guess something happened when it was shipped. I know where the animal comes from and know it would not have been shipped if there was a noticeable problem. Hopefully it is just a minor irritation.

Thanks Cain, that is why I am confident the problem does not have to do with husbandry/health. I will use the saline and take things step by step. The only thing I can think of is when she first got put in her cage she kept trying to get out and rubbing her face on the screen (its reptarium screen) I assume this happened when she was shipped or possibly she hurt her eye on the screen. I noticed the day after I got her, her eye looked a little bit sunken (very minor), and she would close it, but only for a minute or so. and now it is not "sunken" it just looks like it would look if she was sleeping.

 

[Syn]

When my rescue chameleon had eye problems, I used this:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Simply-Saline-Sterile-Saline-Nasal-Mist-3-fl-oz/10316354

It comes as a spray, seems to work pretty well so long as you don't spray point blank. Be gentle.

edit: Actually, I am not 100% sure that is the link, since I got it at the store so long ago, but it looks very similar.

 

[Elizadolots]

my dad, a fireman, told me he could get a bag of it at his work but Im positive they dont use it for eyes there , is it all the same stuff or should I buy the kind specifically for contact lenses/eyes? I also do not have a curved tipped syringe but the syringes I do have can make a tight stream/jet of water, would this work out the same? Am I supposed to literally shoot it right into the shut eyelid and let it fill up? I know there have been tons of threads about this lately but this is yet another.

My only concern is: make sure you have the right salinity. There are two saline solutions commonly used in first aid (noting that dad is a fireman). One is 5% saline solution that is usable in eyes. The other is 9% saline solution that is used to wash wounds. That is not acceptable for use in eyes and would almost certainly be painful and cause problems.

The easiest thing to do would be buy a saline solution that is bottle for use in eyes. You'll know the salinity is correct and the bottle tip is perfectly shaped to squeeze the solution into the eye.

**edit comment**
At least in humans, even a closed eye will admit solution when applied directly to where the lids meet. My daughter's pediatrician explained that to me when daughter had pink eye but wouldn't cooperate with drops. He said to have her close her eyes and put the drops at the inside corner. It would leak in and, when she opened her eyes, most of what hadn't already leaked in would go in.

 

[Lizardlover]

My only concern is: make sure you have the right salinity. There are two saline solutions commonly used in first aid (noting that dad is a fireman). One is 5% saline solution that is usable in eyes. The other is 9% saline solution that is used to wash wounds. That is not acceptable for use in eyes and would almost certainly be painful and cause problems.

The easiest thing to do would be buy a saline solution that is bottle for use in eyes. You'll know the salinity is correct and the bottle tip is perfectly shaped to squeeze the solution into the eye.

**edit comment**
At least in humans, even a closed eye will admit solution when applied directly to where the lids meet. My daughter's pediatrician explained that to me when daughter had pink eye but wouldn't cooperate with drops. He said to have her close her eyes and put the drops at the inside corner. It would leak in and, when she opened her eyes, most of what hadn't already leaked in would go in.

I got the saline, its .9% saline, so I diluted it to .45 % saline and flushed out her eye with it, she co-operated and has been opening her eye a lot more today, she ate and drank, so Im not too concerned, Ill probably flush it out one more time tomorrow.

 

[summoner12]

I got the saline, its .9% saline, so I diluted it to .45 % saline and flushed out her eye with it, she co-operated and has been opening her eye a lot more today, she ate and drank, so Im not too concerned, Ill probably flush it out one more time tomorrow.

keep us up to date

 

[Elizadolots]

LOL...too many years of watching TV...they always refer to the intravenous saline as 5% but of course, it's .5%...

I'm glad things are looking better. Please do keep us up to date.

 

[Lizardlover]

LOL...too many years of watching TV...they always refer to the intravenous saline as 5% but of course, it's .5%...

I'm glad things are looking better. Please do keep us up to date.

Today it rained all day so Im sure that helped with it a bit as well, she still keeps it shut sometime but after mistings she cleans it and and is able to keep it open for a little while, hopefully whatever is in there will come out soon. I was going to point out it was .5% but figured you made a mistake and new better