A Difficult Decision.

[zlew]

Hey guys,
As some of you may know, my Oliver has had some troubles for a while. Mainly, his eating. He is 7g at almost 7 months old. My other panther is 14 months old, and 5 times his size at least. I am at my wit's end, I have tried everything, including temperature changes, I bought him a mistking system, got him as many different types of feeders as I could, cup feeding, free roaming, humidity fixing, he's been tested negative for parasites at least three times. I feel really terrible, because I can't figure out what's wrong with him or with my husbandry (which I'm pretty sure is spot on) and I feel like he is suffering because of me. I've been avoiding this for a long time, but I think I should start force-feeding him. I know how stressful it is, but I feel like it's my only option. Im going to fill out the How to Ask For Help sticky for you guys, and I'm going to ask you guys what is the safest and best way to force feed him.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Ambanja Panther Chameleon, Male, 6+ months old, had him for 5ish.
Handling - Not very often, sometimes I take him up from his hiding place to make him bask and try to get him to eat, otherwise I've stopped handling him to minimize any stress he could have.

Feeding - I have: Mealworms, Hornworms, Dubia Roaches, Crickets, and Phoenix Worms. I will be getting some silkworms soon. I try to get him to eat every day, but the most I've gotten him to eat is one or two feeders intermittently over the past month or so.
Supplements - Calcium w/o d3 every feeding, with d3 twice a month, multivitamin 2x a month, although it is a little skewed since he hasn't really been eating. Its been three days since he last ate, and even then he only ate one mealworm.
Watering - Mistking nozzle goes off every 2.5 hours for two minutes. Haven't seen him drink in a while, but he does not seem dehydrated.
Fecal Description - It looks normal, based on Poop 101, although I think his last poop was two days ago.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Reptibreeze 24x24x48
Lighting - 100w basking spot lamp, (my house is cold) and a T8 5.0 UVB tube.
Temperature - Right now basking spot ~88 degrees, ambient about 73.
Humidity - around 50 with spikes up to 80 during and after misting. I also have a humidifier running in the room.

Placement - Relatively low traffic, in my bedroom.

Location - NY

I appreciate any advice you guys can give me.

 

[ataraxia]

Picture of him and set up?

 

[zlew]

Here you go.

 

[RyU]

Have you tried letting the crickets loose in the enclosure? Some of my chams won't eat out of a cup.

 

[zlew]

Oh Yessiree

 

[kinyonga]

Did this start before or after you got the second chameleon?

 

[ataraxia]

Im going to assume this picture is recent.

Some chameleons appetites arent like others. This chameleons appears active and is defecating normally. Not every chameleon is created equally when it comes to appetite or growth rate.

I would personally recommend one of two things.
1. Just keep doing what you are. Everything seems sufficient at the moment (active and normal poos).
2. Withhold feeders for 5-7 days. When you do introduce a feeder. Use a cricket or two. Leave the room and see how it goes. If he doesnt eat them within 15-30 mins. Take them out and wait a couple more days. If he does eat them. Keep repeating the step where you put a few in and leave the room. Do this till you see crickets when you return. Keep count and you will have a base for how many feeders he will eat in a feeding. This is just a base amount. With time the number may go up drastically or it may not.



This may not be directly related to the appetite issue but it is a concern.
Try to place the UVB bulb as close to the basking bulb you can. The distance from the top of the basking branch to the UVB bulb should be around 8 inches.

 

[zlew]

Sorry if that was not clear, his poops are normal when he does eat, but those times are few and far apart. And he's not very active, I haven't seen him bask without encouragement, he spends most of his time curled near the bottom (I don't think he's sleeping, just staying still)

 

[zlew]

But I will try what you said.

 

[zlew]

Kinyonga: definitely started before The Cap joined us.

 

[nick barta]

Just a thought, if he spends most of his time in the pictured free range, he probably is not getting his body temperature up as it appears he can't get close enough to the basking light, even at 100 watt. This would stop the digestive process.
Temp the place he basks at.

Nick

 

[johnnyev]

Hi.
Do you know the history of your animal?
I have a male hoehnelii that was the last one to be born, so the runt of the litter. When born he was (according to the breeder) at least half the size of the others. He is a terrible eater, probably eats two medium sized crickets every other day & a couple of blue bottles a week. Cant get him to eat anything else, wont even try waxworms, morios, locust etc.
Could just be a very bad feeder & had he been in the wild. Just wouldn't survive.
Personally i have never had success force feeding chams. It's just too stressful for them & in my limited experience, they go downhill fast.

 

[zlew]

It's not a free range--that is his cage. The basking is 88 degrees, I measured yesterday. Should I take out the big tree, make the enclosure a little smaller? keep him in the warmer areas? And I have tried all different temperatures for him.

 

[Sanababit]

Well i am going thru the same thing with presley my nosy be, he has been a picky eater for about a month and a half, he only eats maybe a superworm daily and some flies every other day, his basking spot is around 80-82 per my digital thermometer, i stopped worrying, he doesnt seem lethargic and moves around with ease, maybe its brumation season, maybe hes tired of eating the same, i really dont know, so what i did is just put some flies in his cage along with a super and a cricket and when i come back i do an inspection to see what he has eaten, my only advice is if he hasnt eaten anything for at least 2-3 weeks then Force feed him Or get him to gape and put a worm or a cricket in its mouth, good luck

Sana

 

[Leslie11]

light bulb

The 100w bulb may be too hot for hin, which is why he stays near the bottom. Try a 75w. If he is too hot, he won't be getting the UVB light, either.

 

[zlew]

Leslie--My house is 66 degrees. He does need the 100w IMO, but, I will try the 75w and see how it goes.

 

[ponders]

Sometimes, there are runts that fail to thrive. You may be doing everything right and they still don't grow.

I have a quad baby who is 3 1/2 months old and just turned 3 g, meanwhile his brothers are 2-3 times his size. He eats and poops normally, just isn't thriving. There is obviously something wrong, but I haven't been able to correct it. Unfortunately, he probably wouldn't have survived in the wild for very long. So I am enjoying him while he is here.

I don't really have any advice for you, just that I understand your frustration.

And force-feeding is awful for both of you. jmo

 

[zlew]

I am just worried that he is suffering. Can't stunted growth cause joint pain and other issues? Thank you for your understanding, it is frustrating and very worrisome.

 

[ponders]

I don't believe mine is suffering, but it's a tough call to decide what to do when their quality of life is diminishing.

 

[zlew]

I just feel like he's not really enjoying himself-he doesn't enjoy eating, he doesn't enjoy basking, he sleeps sometimes during the day, he mostly just curls up near the bottom all day. Vet confirmed no infections or parasites, and he's too small to do bloodwork. I just don't know what to do.