a bit worried, appetite and weight of jacksonii.

[Sang]

Cage Info:30"x30"x18" , screened mesh, ficus benjamina, schefflera, and biovine, vine, large branch.

* Lighting - reptisun 5.0 18" hood lamp, 60 watt house bulb for basking, 6 am-6:30 pm..*normal sun up to sun down schedule
* Temperature - Night time temps 66-70... mid day temps 70-75 . basking 82F
* Humidity - drops down to 40's hovers in the 60's misting 3 times a day for several minutes.
* Plants - ficus benjamina and schefflera
* Location - Very low traffic area, my room, i am the only one in or out. TV is rarely on, and usually very quiet *but there deaf right?* 4' off the ground, i do have his cage housed next to my panther, but i have stuff to hide each other from seeing each other.



Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Male Jacksonii xantholophus, age *unkown* id assume at least a year, he is fairly small, WC *no testing for parasites as of yet, i will asap* maybe a little over 3 weeks.
* Handling - 1-2 times a week, when moving him outside to his tree.
* Feeding - 4-5 week crickets, every 2 days, i put about 6 in his cage, usually coated in clacium w/out d3....1x a mont w/d3....1x a month vitamins w/d3
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products zoomed reptivite as a vitamin supliment. rep-cal calcium, with and without d3.
* Watering - R/O filtered water misted with a pump spray for several minutes and dripped in front for him to drink 3x a day
* Fecal Description - Very small brown poops when i find em, runny white urate, i see him drinking at least. no parasite testings as of yet.
* History -Came from a local guy at the reptile expo, claimed he was exported from tanzania. ate 2 horn worms the day i got him, a few days later a small dubia roach, and then about 7 days after that i got him to eat 1 horn worm and 1 medium cricket, by showing him relfection and letting him bite down, which he quickly sucked down.
* Current Problem - seems very thin, lethargic, his eyes and colors look good, he really perked up in the sunlight. almost absolutly NO appetite, nothing i try, roaches, crickets, horn/waxie worms.

im concerned that his weight is far less then what it should be, his strength to me is declining from when i got him, grip was alot strong, but its still pretty good when he wants to use it.

he pretty much stays near his basking spot, moving when it gets too hot, moving when he gets cool, he sleeps relativly in the same area and has very little movement....was farm more active when i first got him, avoids his schefflera used to always sleep in it.

ill wait a few days before getting him food, he drinks well...

*im sorry i don't have his weight yet, but he feels just very light, small in comparison to the other adult jacksonii i have seen, handled.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/outside-pics-18314/ *his pics from yesterday outside, he looks good overall at least to me.

 

[Sang]

Small update.


I have hadded alot more plants, increased his humidty, it now hovers around 75%...

ill be adding plastic to the sides to help hold moisture longer.



i picked up some freashly molted super worms, and he only ate 1, and snubbed the rest..........

1 i guess is good for now, he still refuses waxies, and almost everything else.


i will be getting him a fecal soon.

 

[Sang]

Ok, i went the breeder, only a small bit of help..

*he gave me plenty of panacur* but thats for worms as i later found out.
and said he would flat out replace him if i can't get his health up, or if he dies, he's really trying hard to keep my business.

and he offered to do the fecals for free, but he doesn't know how to do floats.

SO now im wondering if i should even bother with going to him, as i know i need the float to find out if he has coccidia.

can anyone give me some reading on light signs of coccidia

 

[Dave Weldon]

Ok, i went the breeder, only a small bit of help..

*he gave me plenty of panacur* but thats for worms as i later found out.

and he offered to do the fecals for free, but he doesn't know how to do floats.

SO now im wondering if i should even bother with going to him, as i know i need the float to find out if he has coccidia.

can anyone give me some reading on light signs of coccidia

Howdy James,

Hang onto the Panacur. Those worms are more common than Coccidia.

Any reason why you think your Jackson's has Coccidia?

If a vet visit is possible then you might as well do it and have him do the fecal testing, float or no float. A fecal smear test is able to show coccidia etc. as long as the parasite concentration is (statistically) high enough to have it likely that some of it will show-up under the microscope. A fecal float essentially concentrates the parasite count by "floating" them to the top of the ~1/2 ounce of float liquid in a float container where they get stuck to the slide cover. Rather than seeing the result of one tiny piece of fecal material mixed in a drop of water, you are seeing the separation of the floatable parasites from a much larger (100x) piece of poop and having a large number of them end-up stuck to a slide cover. It's all in the odds . There are other parasites (flagellates, giardia etc.) that are found by seeing them swimming around in a smear. You don't float them because the float liquid (usually sodium nitrate) usually kills them fast and then you can't see them by their swimming movements .

It sounds like your breeder might be a good source for follow-up fecal testing once your vet does the first diagnosis. Have your breeder drop me a line if he wants to know more about fecal float testing. I could steer him into some products to assist in floating.

As far as what to look for concerning Coccidia symptoms:

Some show no symptoms and continue to carry it in somewhat of a balanced count. Coccidia blows-out intestinal lining cells as it reproduces. If the damage is repaired by the chameleon's processes as fast as the damage is done then things may stay that way. If either the numbers can't be kept up with or an infection takes hold in the intestinal lining then you've got problems. That's why many vets want to treat it if they find it. Sooner or later it is likely to become symptomatic and at that point the damage may be extensive. And that's not to mention the strong possibility of transmitting coccidia to another animal in your collection . The symptoms range around appetite loss, no energy, the dark poop being runny, etc. The same symptoms can be caused by other parasites as well as a lot of other health issues. If you saw my YouTube videos of chameleon blood samples full of parasites eek, you might want to have that checked too.

Since you are in Tempe Arizona, Dr. Funk is near you. If he happens to find Coccidia then he'll likely prescribe Ponazuril. I went to one of his presentations on parasites and he is a big advocate of Ponazuril and of treating Coccidia. I don't know what he charges but we have been getting our prescriptions for Ponazuril filled by Diamondback Drugs in Arizona (lucky you ). We've been paying about $23 + shipping (~$4) to get something like 30ml of 60mg/ml strength Ponazuril. 30ml is hundreds of doses . They have to compound it (mix and dilute etc.) so that is why you won't find it at most vet-type pharmacies.

Diamondback Drugs
www.diamondbackdrugs.com

7316 E Thomas Rd
Scottsdale, AZ 85251
(480) 946-2223

 

[Sang]

The symptoms range around appetite loss, no energy, the dark poop being runny, etc


sounds like it, his energy is fairly minimal. and his poop isn't runny just tiny, and his urates are extremly fluidic... practically coming out in water, he has shown at least from what i can see an increase in water consumption...


thank you dave, i really appreciate your response, i have an appointment with dr funk on thursday, i just need to see if i can get him to eat something, so i actually can collect poop.

 

[ponders]

Jackson's love house flies

You might want to try some house flies. Jackson's seem to love them. It might stimulate his appetite. They also slow down in the winter, but he does look under weight. Vet visit is a good idea. Spider Pharm and Mantis Place sell house fly pupae.
Good luck, Jackson's are one of my favorite chams.

 

[Sang]

i want to order the flys, are the blue bottle fairly large, and does the fly larvae come in a culture like the fruit flys? or is it different?

 

[ponders]

The house flies are smaller than the BB flies. They come in pupal stage in a little bag. You store them in the fridge and take out the ones you need. These you warm up by a light and they hatch out in 2 days. Those 2 places I suggestted have detailed info on hatching and rearing of flies. Good luck, did you get to the vet yet?

 

[FOREVER ENDEAVOR]

Howdy James,

Hang onto the Panacur. Those worms are more common than Coccidia.

Any reason why you think your Jackson's has Coccidia?

If a vet visit is possible then you might as well do it and have him do the fecal testing, float or no float. A fecal smear test is able to show coccidia etc. as long as the parasite concentration is (statistically) high enough to have it likely that some of it will show-up under the microscope. A fecal float essentially concentrates the parasite count by "floating" them to the top of the ~1/2 ounce of float liquid in a float container where they get stuck to the slide cover. Rather than seeing the result of one tiny piece of fecal material mixed in a drop of water, you are seeing the separation of the floatable parasites from a much larger (100x) piece of poop and having a large number of them end-up stuck to a slide cover. It's all in the odds . There are other parasites (flagellates, giardia etc.) that are found by seeing them swimming around in a smear. You don't float them because the float liquid (usually sodium nitrate) usually kills them fast and then you can't see them by their swimming movements .

It sounds like your breeder might be a good source for follow-up fecal testing once your vet does the first diagnosis. Have your breeder drop me a line if he wants to know more about fecal float testing. I could steer him into some products to assist in floating.



I agree,.. I'd definetly take up the offer the breeder has given you... Dr. Funk is my new vet.. not to familiar with Chameleons but he knows a great deal about herps in general..Best vet i've found in az so far....hes in mesa.
Ray

 

[Sang]

the two vets i knew in tempe they moved a few years ago, but were excellent herp vets.

Dr.funk was my new choice, as the place i normally would go had a herp vet that just wasn't to knowledgeable on chams.


vet appointment is for thursday, earliest i could make it considering finals and what not and work.

i think ill order some blue bottle...my sister won't let me store stuff in the fridge. *JUST ordered some blue bottle flies.*

 

[Sang]

hm, well i manage to get a small sample of his fecal, i hope its enough, as it looks almost as something is compacting him, or he is prolapsing, a large peice came out and went back in, but did not look like any kind of prolapse i had ever seen.


it was yellowish green, with yellowish oranges mixed in. the sample i got, was really gel like, mixed with what looked like more solid urate, and it looked almost as if a bit of something hadn't digested, almost like a tiny stick, or the thorax peice of a cricket *the peiece they use to lay eggs*.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

hm, well i manage to get a small sample of his fecal, i hope its enough, as it looks almost as something is compacting him, or he is prolapsing, a large peice came out and went back in, but did not look like any kind of prolapse i had ever seen.


it was yellowish green, with yellowish oranges mixed in. the sample i got, was really gel like, mixed with what looked like more solid urate, and it looked almost as if a bit of something hadn't digested, almost like a tiny stick, or the thorax peice of a cricket *the peiece they use to lay eggs*.

Hey Sang , any update how is your guy doing?