27 days since mating

Doodleh

New Member
Hi everyone, I need a little reassurance or advice.
It has been 27 days since I mated my veiled's for the first time.
My female is incredibly large now, and you can see perfect outlines of the eggs in her stomach. She started to lose her appetite over a week ago, and stopped eating completely about 4 days ago.
She is still drinking very well, both from her dripper and also when I mist her cage.
Her eyes are a little less bulgy than usual, but not enough to cause concern yet.
I have used a mix of damp top soil mixed with washed play sand for her to dig in, at least 10 inches deep, she has not even looked at it yet.
I have covered her cage with a thin blanket so that if she starts digging and I walk in the room she won't see me.
I'm just a little worried that she has too many eggs, should I be able to see them??
How many days should I leave her before starting to worry? I thought it took up to 30 days for them to lay, but I have seen a lot of people post saying it took their chameleon 25/26 days,so I'm concerned because she has already been 27!
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Mine usually have been laying around the 30 day mark.

Sometimes you can see the egg bulges on the sides near the hind leg...sometimes you can't.

Drinking like a fish is normal for veileds in the last few days before they lay the eggs in my experience.

Over-feeding, not enough calcium and UVB exposure, and lack of a suitable egg laying site are all thought to contribute to eggbinding in veiled chameleons. There are physical reasons that occur once in a while too...fused eggs, misformed eggs, uterine problems/deformities, etc.

Signs of eggbinding included but are not limited to: eyes closed and sunken in, weak appearance, sitting on the floor of the cage, has given up digging, or digs a hole and turns around in it as if laying eggs and then fills the hole in...but there were no eggs laid.

Hope she will start digging today for you!
 

Doodleh

New Member
Thanks a lot! Has reassured me a little bit, luckily I have nothing to do for the next week so I can stay at home with her.
how often would you suggest checking onher, since she's covered up?,
I am still misting her a lot, but I have been spraying through the top of her cage so I'm out of her line of sight.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have a towel with a tiny hole in it that I can peek through to see what she is doing. I can check a female several times a day this way.

They may dig one hole and just keep digging or they may dig a couple of test holes first and select one. Some take a break and sit up in the branches for a while and others don't. If a female were to dig and then not go back to finishing the hole again at all and didn't lay her eggs, then I would be concerned.
 

Doodleh

New Member
I cut a small hole in the blanet so I can check on her, and I'm so pleased! she has started to dig, she's dug in a few different places and is currently just having a break and a long drink! :D
She doesn't seem stressed and her eyes even seem more bulgy than yesteday! I'm so excited, thanks for your advice!
 

pohchunyee

Avid Member
Awesome........now is the most crazy time.... incubating them... just let them be and look at them once a month and add water if needed... the more you look at it... it will drive you crazy!!!
 

Ren

New Member
Now its all a LONG waiting game! Hope you have lots of patience!

How are you incubating them?

This was my question as well, I am trying to hatch some now as well. April had 41 in her first clutch and i fear only 6 or 8 will hatch some have molded and shriveled and some dries completely, I have been looking for a definitive how to so to speak on how to incubate them as I don't want to make any more mistakes with the new clutch of 51 she has laid about 3 weeks ago... also first clutch should hatch around Aug. Any help would be appreciated...
 

Ren

New Member
need more info,,,, what do you put them into, Tupperware, vermiculite etc, how moist and so on.... I really feel bad that i have lost so many of my eggs now as it is sad in fact...thanx, btw i think it is great to have actual people posting just minutes after someone asks a question I have had for a long time, thanks thanks thanks...
 

Doodleh

New Member
I am using fine grade vermiulite, I've heard the humidity needs to be at about 80-90%, is that true?
 

Ren

New Member
from all i have read the more the better on humidity however i guess it could be a problem when water droplets drop onto the eggs couldnt it? And does anyone use sand as a medium?
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have kept/bred/hatched/raised veiled chameleons for a long time.

If you live in an area where its possible to do this, the eggs may be kept in a container in a closet on the shelf. There are quite a few ways to get the eggs to hatch....this is what I do.

I use shoe-box sized tupperware-type containers (about 10" x 3" x 15"...guestimate). I punch two very tiny holes in the lid. I fill them about half full of barely moist (coarse) vermiculite. To judge the moisture level of the vermiculite, I take a fist full of it an squeeze it....no more than a drop or two of water should come out of it. The reason for only filling the container half full is that when the babies hatch, they have room to move around in the container until you notice that they are there and remove them.

I lay the eggs in rows spaced about 1" apart in all directions....this makes the eggs hatch more individually rather than en masse. IMHO it gives them a better chance to survive. (When you dig the eggs up after the female buries them, you should try not to turn them, BTW.) I put the lid on and start to incubate them. The incubator should have already been set up so that it will be warm enough. I incubate them at about 78F. You will find beads of moisture on the sides of the containers in a day or two and often on the lid too. This has never been a problem with veiled eggs. If it looks to be too much, I will wipe it off the lid.

Check the container in a couple of days to make sure that the eggs aren't denting in....and to look for moldy infertile eggs. Don't leave the lid off for too long. If all is well, check again in a week or so....and then maybe once or twice a month after that until they get near the end of the incubation time.

The eggs will grow considerably in length and width. Near the end (last week or so), they will start to shrink in size, get windows (spots that look thinner/darker) and then the end of the egg should get an X slit in it and the baby will poke its head out. The baby will look dead/sleeping....and within a day or so should be out of the egg and running around in the container. Its a long wait!

Incubating them this way, I have had close to 100% hatch rate of fertile eggs.

Good luck!
 

Ren

New Member
What the average % of infertile to fertile eggs per clutch or is there really? Out of my initial 41 i have 11 that may hatch, they look pretty good actually, i thought they were worse off than they were. How long do they take to hatch normally? I think mine are due around the first of Aug. They were laid Feb 6/07
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
The length of time the incubation takes depends partly on the temperature that you incubate them at. At 78F (fluctuating slightly from day to night) I have found it takes about 250 days....but I have had variations on that length of time.

You said..."What the average % of infertile to fertile eggs per clutch or is there really?"...this is a hard/long question to answer. If the mating takes place at the right time in the female's cycle, the whole clutch should be fertile. If she was already starting to make the eggs when the mating occurred, part of the clutch will be fertile and part of it won't. If she's really far along in her cycle, she may quickly lay a clutch that is completely infertile and then start on a completely fertile clutch. This is just what I have found out through experience.

If you deal with chameleons long enough you will learn that nothing about them is really written in stone!
 

Doodleh

New Member
My poor female died today. She'd not eaten for a week before laying her eggs, and hadn't eaten since. Is this normal?
I feel so terrible.. my poor little girl :( I was going to keep one of her babies, but I don't think I'm going to now. This has put me off keeping chameleons, even though I love them.. has anyone ever experienced this?
 

TreelionsUK

New Member
The length of time the incubation takes depends partly on the temperature that you incubate them at. At 78F (fluctuating slightly from day to night) I have found it takes about 250 days....but I have had variations on that length of time.

You said..."What the average % of infertile to fertile eggs per clutch or is there really?"...this is a hard/long question to answer. If the mating takes place at the right time in the female's cycle, the whole clutch should be fertile. If she was already starting to make the eggs when the mating occurred, part of the clutch will be fertile and part of it won't. If she's really far along in her cycle, she may quickly lay a clutch that is completely infertile and then start on a completely fertile clutch. This is just what I have found out through experience.

If you deal with chameleons long enough you will learn that nothing about them is really written in stone!
I agree with this 100% very good advice!! i have found this with panthers also,and i find that i always have a few that hatch 1-2 months after the bulk of the eggs have hatched.
 

TreelionsUK

New Member
My poor female died today. She'd not eaten for a week before laying her eggs, and hadn't eaten since. Is this normal?
I feel so terrible.. my poor little girl :( I was going to keep one of her babies, but I don't think I'm going to now. This has put me off keeping chameleons, even though I love them.. has anyone ever experienced this?
Sorry to hear this,i think many keepers will of had a simalar problem.
Hope you dont feel too bad about it.
 
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