I think the new member is talking about the closing eye,not dehydration,but i will agree with you on the dehydration part
2 month Panther closing eyes
- Thread starter Mau_34
- Start date
MeruJack
Avid Member
I don't have any recommendation for the closed eyes except to watch closely, get poop to the vet, and check the temps and other environmental factors but I didn't want zoe or any other owners to put their babies in the shower. That's why I wrote "If you want to hydrate (your baby cham)."I think the new member is talking about the closing eye,not dehydration,but i will agree with you on the dehydration part
So lets recap the takeaway for you@Mau 34,if u dont wana use the shower method like @MeruJack recommend,you can also use a dripping method with Syringe fill with lukewarm and gently rinse his closed eyes .Haha u got it
Plz check ur uvb
And be sure to give the cham proper supplements needs
Lastly,you can also bring in for a vet check up
I understand you no worry
MelissaB
Avid Member
I agree with MeruJack, that baby is too small for a shower. Don't trust the dial type hygrometer, they're notorious for being inaccurate. Make sure it's not too hot where the baby is usually perching. I prefer to use digital thermometers or a temp gun to take temperature readings.
I don't have any advice about the eye problem, but in the future I would not buy a chameleon under the age of three months. They're so small and fragile, shipping and the whole rehoming process is stressful, it can be rough on them.
I don't have any advice about the eye problem, but in the future I would not buy a chameleon under the age of three months. They're so small and fragile, shipping and the whole rehoming process is stressful, it can be rough on them.
Mau_34
New Member
Please check on ur supplments too,sometimes young chameleon
suffer from vitamin A deficiency. Fat-soluble vitamin A, is stored in the egg yolk and then in the liver, and within several months after hatching, vitamin A may become depleted by the chameleon’s body.
Vitamin A is potentially toxic if overdosed, as you discovered in the case of your first chameleon. There is a vitamin A precursor, called beta-carotene, however, that is completely safe and non-toxic. Beta-carotene is converted in the body to active vitamin A and the unused portion is excreted unchanged, so it is a much safer way to deal with vitamin A deficiency (technically called hypovitaminosis A).
While I would never recommend that you attempt to diagnose and treat your chameleon without the benefit of veterinary assistance, I feel comfortable in suggesting that you can begin your chameleon on a beta-carotene supplement, as this technically cannot be overdosed
I'm using this for his vitamins and calcium but I don't think it has the d3
Mau_34
New Member
Thank you, I was wondering how long I should mist the cage for. And would you know if this a good supplement for his food? I don't think it has d3 though
Mau_34
New Member
Personally I use the repcal calcium without D3,so I wouldn't be able to tell u the REPASHY,try to compare the ingredients with other and if u still keep in touch with your breeder I will suggest to give a call to find out what they using.
MeruJack
Avid Member
I was just reading about that exact supplement and this is what I found: "Everything that I have been told is that it is an all-in-one replacement for Cal, Cal w/D3 and multi-vitamin and it is to be used with every feeding."
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
If you read the label, you will find it has quite a lot of Vitamin D in it. You need to feed just plain calcium at all feedings. Vitamins only once every two weeks at most. Repashy plain calcium (no Vitamin D) is a really good brand because it is ground so finely.
Your baby should be eating a lot more than the three crickets you are feeding. A lot more. At that age, they should be eating machines. My adults eat more than three feeders a day.
How much does your baby weigh?
There are a few things that I've noticed (or imagined) aboutt your little baby, and it's based on the pictures which can be deceiving. I don't like the bloated appearance of his body--I hope it is just the photo--and I don't like the folding of skin around his neck. I don't know what is going on, but I would stop all supplements except plain calcium, increase humidity and misting--I would be running a mister on him for 10 minutes every hour for a couple of hours and then five minutes an hour. Unless you have an automatic mister, it is really hard to do. Try misting with warm water, and not directly on the baby.
I just don't know where to begin.
I am so disheartened that so many people are showing up on the list with itty bitty baby panthers. It is not fair to the animals to sell them to people who have no experience and are not equipped to handle such a tiny, fragile baby, and it is certainly not fair to a new buyer to have a neonate as a first chameleon. I'm really sorry Mau34, I am not giving you what you need and my rant is not going to help you either. Where are you located?
Mau_34
New Member
But I'm also suppose to give him calcium with d3 though right??
yeah I was upset that he was just gonna hit two months when I got him last Friday but knowing me I was gonna get him/her either way haha but I do understand you it is my first Cham but that's why I'm caring even more to try and keep him healthy. So then I should only use the repashy every how long? And another question, how can I keep its humidity up? I spray it and within 20 min the gauge goes from 65 to 50 or less. I also saw what you meant by the wrinkles on his neck see if this pic helps if not I'll take another one.
Leo Chance
Member
There seems to be some disagreement about the shower, but there is no doubt that chameleons are better off with regular misting with warm water. One of our panthers has never been seen licking water from the leaves until he has been sprayed for several minutes. I would try to raise the humidity in the enclosure. Looks like you have a lot of responses, so you have lots of information to work with. Good luck.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Those dial humidity gauges are notoriously inaccurate. A digital one is better. Having a live plant in the enclosure will help keep the humidity up. The water won't evaporate off the leaves as quickly, so the baby will have longer drinking opportunities. Also, sometimes they drink by lapping up the fine mist of a spray--if you see your baby opening and closing his mouth when you are spraying, he is drinking so keep misting but don't overwhelm him.
I think keeping this baby alive is going to be a challenge. I really hate to say that to you. This should be a time of joy for you, not a time for worrying, but I think worrying and fussing is appropriate based on the tiny size.
I'm glad you've got a glass terrarium which will make it easier to keep the humidity up. The biggest down side of a glass terrarium, especially for such a tiny baby, is heat regulation. Heat can build up in an enclosed space, and I bet your tank is only 18 to 24 inches tall. Babies are not the best at thermoregulating--they might not know to go to the bottom of the cage to get cooler. Also, babies are so tiny, that their temperature fluctuates a lot more quickly than a larger massed animal. I suggest you have many different thermometers at the different levels. I sometimes put in those digital outdoor window thermometers that have a suction cup (made by AcuRite) in cages. If you put in two--one at the bottom and one close to the hottest part but not directly under a heat source--you will be able to monitor the heat.
I like the Repashy superfine calcium. There really is a huge difference between Repashy's calcium and any other. You don't want to have your feeders so coated in calcium they are "ghosts."
I know three crickets a day is not enough at all. Do you have small enough crickets?
Right now, I have a little stunted baby that I am trying to keep alive. He was hatched with problems which yours wasn't, but I wanted to give you an idea of what I do with him so you can get a bit of an understanding of how to treat/feed your baby. My little runty guy is in his own cage, quite a small one compared to yours. Last I weighed him he was 1.3g. Attached is a picture of him on my finger (with a clutch mate behind to give a reference of how runty he really is) so you can judge how big your baby is compared to my 1.3g runt. I put in about 50 or so calcium dusted fruit flies at least once a day and anytime this cage seems to not have many. His cage is only about 5" wide by something like 18" tall and deep. It is a tiny cage compared to your cage, so he has easy access to his food. I also feed him 1/8" crickets which are pretty close in size to the fruit flies (hydei, a large flightless fruit fly). I have very tiny silk worms I've seen him eat. At least once a day, I put in about 20 tiny calcium-dusted crickets. My little runt has a lot of tiny branches filling his cage so he can easily move anywhere. I have areas where he can get away from the UVB lighting.
The stunted baby's siblings are housed together in a much bigger cage that is quite packed with twiggy branches with a few fake plants around for cover and to collect water for drinking. They are offered 1/4" crickets and also fruit flies and silk worms. I don't count how many I put in--I just look at the density of food and add several times a day. I am careful to keep the cricket density low at night in case they bite the babies. I make sure my crickets are really well fed and I think that helps prevent them trying to feed on a chameleon. I'll often leave cricket food in the chameleon's cage, too.
I don't know what is going on with your baby. I just don't like his apparent bloated appearance and what seems like excess skin around his throat and eyes. It is possible that he has had some edema that has resolved, leaving stretched, deflated looking skin, however I think he has some edema now. Edema--basically fluid retention--has many causes and sometimes no one really knows why it happens. I have a species that is quite susceptible to developing edema in response to over supplementing, especially artificial Vitamin D. If you have been supplementing him with the Repashy vitamins you showed in a picture, that could very well be what is going on. That's why I recommended you to stop all supplements except plain calcium with no Vitamin D. I've also found that sometimes certain cricket shipments seem to cause edema. I think it is from a build up of something the commercial cricket farms feed their crickets. Other breeders (of the species I work with) have told me that sometimes when they switch from feeding fruit flies and bean beetles to crickets, they get edema that resolves. I always feed my crickets only really good healthy natural food for a few weeks before I feed them to my chameleons, but sometimes that is not enough.
The second picture is a 7-week old baby with the edema I was talking about. This showed up as soon as I started feeding crickets and has since resolved. I include it so you can see what edema looks like and decide if that is what is going on with your baby. Can you see how the throat area is full and bloated all around his whole neck? If you look you can see that there is a bulge of fluid collecting in the tissues between the front legs. Compare that to the two babies in the first picture. Also notice that the eyes of the baby in the second picture are a bit bulgy.
Caring for fragile creatures is challenging and very stressful. It is just not fun, but if you succeed you will have learned a lot about keeping chameleons.
I think keeping this baby alive is going to be a challenge. I really hate to say that to you. This should be a time of joy for you, not a time for worrying, but I think worrying and fussing is appropriate based on the tiny size.
I'm glad you've got a glass terrarium which will make it easier to keep the humidity up. The biggest down side of a glass terrarium, especially for such a tiny baby, is heat regulation. Heat can build up in an enclosed space, and I bet your tank is only 18 to 24 inches tall. Babies are not the best at thermoregulating--they might not know to go to the bottom of the cage to get cooler. Also, babies are so tiny, that their temperature fluctuates a lot more quickly than a larger massed animal. I suggest you have many different thermometers at the different levels. I sometimes put in those digital outdoor window thermometers that have a suction cup (made by AcuRite) in cages. If you put in two--one at the bottom and one close to the hottest part but not directly under a heat source--you will be able to monitor the heat.
I like the Repashy superfine calcium. There really is a huge difference between Repashy's calcium and any other. You don't want to have your feeders so coated in calcium they are "ghosts."
I know three crickets a day is not enough at all. Do you have small enough crickets?
Right now, I have a little stunted baby that I am trying to keep alive. He was hatched with problems which yours wasn't, but I wanted to give you an idea of what I do with him so you can get a bit of an understanding of how to treat/feed your baby. My little runty guy is in his own cage, quite a small one compared to yours. Last I weighed him he was 1.3g. Attached is a picture of him on my finger (with a clutch mate behind to give a reference of how runty he really is) so you can judge how big your baby is compared to my 1.3g runt. I put in about 50 or so calcium dusted fruit flies at least once a day and anytime this cage seems to not have many. His cage is only about 5" wide by something like 18" tall and deep. It is a tiny cage compared to your cage, so he has easy access to his food. I also feed him 1/8" crickets which are pretty close in size to the fruit flies (hydei, a large flightless fruit fly). I have very tiny silk worms I've seen him eat. At least once a day, I put in about 20 tiny calcium-dusted crickets. My little runt has a lot of tiny branches filling his cage so he can easily move anywhere. I have areas where he can get away from the UVB lighting.
The stunted baby's siblings are housed together in a much bigger cage that is quite packed with twiggy branches with a few fake plants around for cover and to collect water for drinking. They are offered 1/4" crickets and also fruit flies and silk worms. I don't count how many I put in--I just look at the density of food and add several times a day. I am careful to keep the cricket density low at night in case they bite the babies. I make sure my crickets are really well fed and I think that helps prevent them trying to feed on a chameleon. I'll often leave cricket food in the chameleon's cage, too.
I don't know what is going on with your baby. I just don't like his apparent bloated appearance and what seems like excess skin around his throat and eyes. It is possible that he has had some edema that has resolved, leaving stretched, deflated looking skin, however I think he has some edema now. Edema--basically fluid retention--has many causes and sometimes no one really knows why it happens. I have a species that is quite susceptible to developing edema in response to over supplementing, especially artificial Vitamin D. If you have been supplementing him with the Repashy vitamins you showed in a picture, that could very well be what is going on. That's why I recommended you to stop all supplements except plain calcium with no Vitamin D. I've also found that sometimes certain cricket shipments seem to cause edema. I think it is from a build up of something the commercial cricket farms feed their crickets. Other breeders (of the species I work with) have told me that sometimes when they switch from feeding fruit flies and bean beetles to crickets, they get edema that resolves. I always feed my crickets only really good healthy natural food for a few weeks before I feed them to my chameleons, but sometimes that is not enough.
The second picture is a 7-week old baby with the edema I was talking about. This showed up as soon as I started feeding crickets and has since resolved. I include it so you can see what edema looks like and decide if that is what is going on with your baby. Can you see how the throat area is full and bloated all around his whole neck? If you look you can see that there is a bulge of fluid collecting in the tissues between the front legs. Compare that to the two babies in the first picture. Also notice that the eyes of the baby in the second picture are a bit bulgy.
Caring for fragile creatures is challenging and very stressful. It is just not fun, but if you succeed you will have learned a lot about keeping chameleons.
Thats when you purchase the calcium with D3 separately cause you only use that for twice a month along with mutivitamin with the Beta - carotene,this is very important associates with the vitaminA for your young cham eyes,trust me on this!!!
Mau_34
New Member
I actually ran out of baby crickets so I gave him a sorta medium one so idk if he's full from that one and would you be able to tell if it's a boy or girl?
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think the current thinking is that chameleons cannot convert beta-carotene to Vitamin A.
The latest picture again suggests gular edema, so I would back off all supplements except plain calcium. And Mau34, I know nothing about panthers so I'm not the one to ask about its sex. Worry about growing that baby up before you worry about sex.
I buy crickets by the thousands. I just bought 1000 1/8th inch crickets for that one runty baby and I am regretting not getting 2000. He's the only one who will be eating them.
One of the things about babies is that healthy babies go through a LOT of feeders. Twenty? Thirty? A lot. You absolutely must plan ahead and not run out of food. They are not cheap to raise.
