1 year old panther Chameleon eating habits

[jack_wardayyyy]

Hi everyone!

I recent just got my first chameleon and he’s in his first week of living with me. When I collected him from the reptile centre they told me to feed him 4-6 locust a day (coated in vitamins). However I noticed very quick he was trying to eat and chew fake shrubbery. When I contacted the centre they said this is because he is hungry and I should feed him 6-10 locust a day. I have upped the amount since but I also ready on the forums that subadults should eat as much as they can within 5 minutes on the morning and then maybe 2 more locusts at the minute everyday. Is this correct practise? It seems like there’s never any dead set facts and everything is just opinion to a certain degree. Currently I only have large locust so he’s eating around 4/5 on the morning but they’re bigger than his usual size obviously (pets at home only had healthy large locusts all the mediums were dead). So would anyone else advise something different with this? I wake him up at 7am and put him to bed at 7-8pm, so I feed him straight away and then at 5:30 when I get home.

Also when I first brought him home he was drinking from his leaves all the time and sometimes even the spray bottle when I went to spray his leaves however now I never seen him drink from his leaves, I also brought him a dripper which I haven’t seen him use but I do have his humidity levels better now 40-60 in the day and 70 at night, I also have a humidifier but his viv holds humidity really well so it is rarely used. Could just do with peoples knowledge on this drinking behaviour just seems odd I no longer see him drinking when I used to all the time at the start. He seems healthy and is always willing to eat and because of where he came from he’s the most handable chameleon I’ve ever seen it’s like he lives for it sometimes. His urate is white with a tint of yellow I will attach photos next time I find some. For now here’s him in his current set up. Please any advise at all would be great!

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. Do you know how old your fella is? Usually feeding amounts go by age. This may help. https://chameleonacademy.com/basics-feeding-chameleons/ Unless you have a young baby that is under about 3-4 months old, you want to feed just once a day in the morning. This provides them plenty of time to bask, which will promote their proper digestion. It’s important that the feeders be the right size. Anything larger than the space between the eyes is too big. Adding variety of feeders is best and you’ll need to feed your feeder insects well and keep them healthy. A well fed healthy bug is more nutritious for your chameleon.
Regarding hydration, many chameleons are very secretive about drinking. I’d guess that the reason you saw him drinking when you first got him was because he was a bit dehydrated. Look at his urate to measure his hydration status. A little yellow or orange on one end with the rest white is ok. Of course, all white is very well hydrated.
Some panthers will lick and even chew on branches, which I believe is a way of marking their territory. He should not be eating them. That makes me wonder about a vitamin deficiency. However, I’d still advise replacing the artificial plants for live ones, just for aesthetics and enrichment.
What are you giving for supplements and how often? Having them correct is essential.
You will be needing to upgrade your handsome guy to a larger enclosure. The minimum is 60x60x120cm or equivalent for an adult panther. If you can give him larger, he will appreciate it and use all of the space. Often when chams are thought to be ‘friendly’ and willingly come out to be handled, it is because they are unhappy with their enclosure. However, some panthers are more tolerant and trusting of us. Also, I notice you have what looks like coco coir on the floor. Is your enclosure fully bioactive? If not, a bare floor is easiest and most hygienic. I do like that you’ve given him lots of little roads to travel and branches of varied diameter to exercise his feet and leg muscles properly.
Hope I’ve been of some help. Will be waiting to hear back about your supplements.

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

Thank you so much for the reply! My partner remembers them saying he is one year old but I do not recall it very well as I was getting flooded with information however, I do know he is not fully grown as in the reptile centre his viv was next to another 2 chameleons and one was fully grown and a fair bit bigger.

Thank you for helping me with the feeding habits I will 100% stick to just mornings as I do not want to make him a chonky pup! unfortunately his next feeds will be bigger as they are all I have, all the locusts at my local pets at home were dead in their box aside the larger ones, he is happily eating them as of right now though but I was hoping to return to the smaller ones anyway but the info about the eyes is great Awesome I am waiting for my locust feeding pen to come so they have a bigger space but I currently drop apple slices and cucumber slices to keep them well and healthy as I would hate to think they are unhealthy when I feed them too him.

I have been looking at his Urate and it is a little yellowy buy not massively I will send an image if he has today (he did not defecate yesterday which is the first day he has not since I upped his feeding).

He has not chewed his leaves since and I do think that us down to him been hungry as he was only getting 4 locusts a day, I did stop him chewing once which is making me feel bad if he was marking his territory but it did come across like he was hungry as he was constantly going back to chew it and he has not since I have fed him more.

I would love to have real plants in there it is just how well I can maintain them, moving forward I will certainly move towards putting a couple in there, I would assume I leave them in their pots? are there any plants you would recommend? I did have an issue the other day with mould on a very small part on 3 of his branches where the dirt was so I contacted the reptile centre and my friend who has chameleons and breeds reptiles, my friend said it should be fine and is unlikely to cause harm and would go away itself and the centre also said it should be fine but I can brush it off and clean the branches (which I did).

For the supplements he is currently on nutrobal which should have everything, I also have a separate one with just calcium but I have not used that yet as the other is supposed to have calcium.

His current enclosure is 3 feet high, 2 feet wide and 2 feet deep which 90 x 60 x 60 this was bought with him and the centre advised this one for now and said within 6-12 months I should look at moving to 4 x 3 x 3. So i am just holding out for now as its cost me a lot so far and he is very new, but rest assured I certainly am looking to have him in a bigger home by the end of summer

He is very very friendly (which the centre also mentioned saying they have never seen a cham so fond of been handled) as in the centre his enclosure was awesome but he was kept for a while there as the plan was to try use him to breed but he was not interested due to the reason they kept him he was the most handled animal there and they said it appears he loves and really enjoys it which he has continued with me he never seems stressed and is 80% of the time willing to come out by his own choice (I never force him out or try to promote him).

It is coco coir on the floor this also came with his starter kit and they advised on using this and spot cleaning his feces and then changing it every 4-6 weeks, but if you would advise using nothing I may have to consider it but I thought he may of enjoyed a soil floor a little more but this information is great.

I really appreciate your thoughts on his build too as I was worried people may say he has too much, I have spent a fortune on him already as I want him to be as happy as he can be I would hate to think he was happier at the centre and I have provided a downgrade. You have been so helpful honestly all this information has been so useful and great for my knowledge I can not tell you how appreciative I am right now.

Also that photo is awesome, I need to get him a better balanced diet but been in the UK I am finding it hard to source things, I was advised to stick with locusts and avoid crickets and morioworms as they may bite and he is not fully grown but I have been trying to source hornworms as I know they love them. I would love to provide a set of different things every morning so I am still looking about a lot I may just have to order online. I do currently have a batch of Morioworms which he has had 3 of and really enjoyed but I know now these are a once a week treat as they are relatively fatty.

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

Following my last reply, hornworms are illegal in the UK and impossible to get a hold of by the looks, are there any other hydrating feeders that could replace this in some way? Preferably something he could eat daily that isn’t too fatty. I saw someone on here suggest pachnoda grubs, are these a suitable replacement for the hydration department?

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

He is CB22 around 10-12 months old

 

[MissSkittles]

There are a good number of live plants that can be used. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Pothos is perhaps a staple plant and a favorite for chams. No special lighting is needed, grows long vines that your cham can use and nice big leaves ideal for drinking from and hiding under. Heart leaf philodendron is similar. Tradescantia zebrina is also nice in that it doesn’t really need a plant light, although it does much better with one. For a tall center plant, a schefflera is perfect, but will need a strong light. If you go all out and get an Arcadia Jungle Dawn light, you can pretty much grow anything. I use Sansi - the 70w square and also the 36w bulbs. https://www.sansiled.com/ (also available on Amazon).
For supplements, you’ll want to use the calcium without D3 lightly dusted on every feeding except one every other week, that you’ll use the Nutrobal for. The Nutrobal has Vitamin D3, which is fat soluble and can build up to toxic levels, so we need to be cautious with it. Preformed vitamin A is the same, but I can’t determine which source of vitamin A is in Nutrobal.
Yes, some chameleons are strange and come out to us on their own. I have one like that. I don’t understand it, but I do enjoy every second.
I’m not sure about the pachnoda grubs. I’m not sure they’re available here in US. Google says they are a good feeder for reptiles and mentioned bearded dragons and panther chams, but I can’t confirm nor deny. I would think that silkworms should be available in UK. They aren’t able to breed on their own and therefore unable to become invasive. Those are a great feeder - both nutritious and hydrating. Roaches are very nutritious too. Morioworms can bite but most chams instinctively grab them by the head. Crickets can bite your cham if left uneaten in the enclosure and not provided anything to eat. Cucumber is good for hydrating your bugs, but not much nutrition. Low oxalates greens are excellent (dandelion, turnip, mustard, arugula, watercress, collards - not kale or spinach), various squashes, sweet potato, etc. Just add a small amount of fruit - too much sugar.
You may want to consider setting up a bioactive floor. It needs to be done correctly to be successful, but is very nice. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/intro-to-bio-activity.2429/ Usually it’s best to get all of the basic husbandry well understood and set up before moving onto this. Just something to think about.
Chameleons are quite expensive to get set up for, but not so bad after. I think the biggest expense after initial set up is replacing your uvb bulb every year (6 months for ReptiSun) and veterinary care. Speaking of that, it’s always best to find a good vet with experience with chameleons before you need one.

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

Thank you so much for the live plant suggestions when my next pay comes I will definitely look into these, would love to see Bruce climbing on some real plants Would these plants be fine in pots? or would they need to be embedded into the substrate?

Again thank you for the info on the calcium I was unsure I think I actually got with D3. Good to know if to take days off too as so far I have not. So I should use the calcium without D3 for 6 days of the week and then on that one other day use the Nutrobal.

Its so lovely when they come straight to you! makes it feel like they have a bond and really trust you

Awesome, silkworms are available in the UK would these be good for hydration? its a shame I cant get a hold of the hornworms I see so many videos of chams absolutely loving them, appreciate the help and research I will make sure to get rid of the heads of anything that bites for sure, I never put more than one feeder in his enclosure at a time and if he doesn't eat it I put it back into its box. I tend to hand feed him quite a lot too. Again thank you for the nutritional advice with the feeders, I had only heard of gut loading before but now I am seriously interested in doing this to a high level to get the most out of it for him, just a quick one as I haven't had time to watch a video yet as I am at work, these gut loaders is it just a selection of stuff placed for them to eat or do I blend this together to make a juice?

A bioactive floor would be so good to have and I have watched many videos on bioactive vivariums, I would really like to do this and I am assuming this would mean I can have the plants out of the potts and growing from the floor then use things like spring tails and woodlouse as clean up crew?

I have already located a local vet who specialises in reptiles as been a new owner has left me a bit stressed and constantly worried about him.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to provide all this info it has really helped me with knowledge and confidence levels for looking after him.

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

There are a good number of live plants that can be used. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Pothos is perhaps a staple plant and a favorite for chams. No special lighting is needed, grows long vines that your cham can use and nice big leaves ideal for drinking from and hiding under. Heart leaf philodendron is similar. Tradescantia zebrina is also nice in that it doesn’t really need a plant light, although it does much better with one. For a tall center plant, a schefflera is perfect, but will need a strong light. If you go all out and get an Arcadia Jungle Dawn light, you can pretty much grow anything. I use Sansi - the 70w square and also the 36w bulbs. https://www.sansiled.com/ (also available on Amazon).
For supplements, you’ll want to use the calcium without D3 lightly dusted on every feeding except one every other week, that you’ll use the Nutrobal for. The Nutrobal has Vitamin D3, which is fat soluble and can build up to toxic levels, so we need to be cautious with it. Preformed vitamin A is the same, but I can’t determine which source of vitamin A is in Nutrobal.
Yes, some chameleons are strange and come out to us on their own. I have one like that. I don’t understand it, but I do enjoy every second.
I’m not sure about the pachnoda grubs. I’m not sure they’re available here in US. Google says they are a good feeder for reptiles and mentioned bearded dragons and panther chams, but I can’t confirm nor deny. I would think that silkworms should be available in UK. They aren’t able to breed on their own and therefore unable to become invasive. Those are a great feeder - both nutritious and hydrating. Roaches are very nutritious too. Morioworms can bite but most chams instinctively grab them by the head. Crickets can bite your cham if left uneaten in the enclosure and not provided anything to eat. Cucumber is good for hydrating your bugs, but not much nutrition. Low oxalates greens are excellent (dandelion, turnip, mustard, arugula, watercress, collards - not kale or spinach), various squashes, sweet potato, etc. Just add a small amount of fruit - too much sugar.
You may want to consider setting up a bioactive floor. It needs to be done correctly to be successful, but is very nice. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/intro-to-bio-activity.2429/ Usually it’s best to get all of the basic husbandry well understood and set up before moving onto this. Just something to think about.
Chameleons are quite expensive to get set up for, but not so bad after. I think the biggest expense after initial set up is replacing your uvb bulb every year (6 months for ReptiSun) and veterinary care. Speaking of that, it’s always best to find a good vet with experience with chameleons before you need one.

Hey!

Yesterday after handling he got black dots on his face in areas, I am assuming this was from extreme stress as my grandma came flying into the room so I put him back immediately even tho he was hesitant to leave my hand I waited till he went in then left the room for nearly 2 hours when I came back he hasn’t changed much but it was bed time so I turned his lights off and went back downstairs I’ve come back this morning and he seems fine, he ate well and was vibrant. I can’t really see any block parts on him at all now but it does have me paranoid. I know it is commonly extreme stress but it makes me curios, if it wasn’t extreme stress, would he still have the black spots on his face (they were only on his face) it also made me think he could be constipated? I haven’t seen his feces in 2 days now so either he’s don’t it in a real special place I can’t see or he hasn’t gone yet

 

[MissSkittles]

Thank you so much for the live plant suggestions when my next pay comes I will definitely look into these, would love to see Bruce climbing on some real plants Would these plants be fine in pots? or would they need to be embedded into the substrate?

Again thank you for the info on the calcium I was unsure I think I actually got with D3. Good to know if to take days off too as so far I have not. So I should use the calcium without D3 for 6 days of the week and then on that one other day use the Nutrobal.

Its so lovely when they come straight to you! makes it feel like they have a bond and really trust you

Awesome, silkworms are available in the UK would these be good for hydration? its a shame I cant get a hold of the hornworms I see so many videos of chams absolutely loving them, appreciate the help and research I will make sure to get rid of the heads of anything that bites for sure, I never put more than one feeder in his enclosure at a time and if he doesn't eat it I put it back into its box. I tend to hand feed him quite a lot too. Again thank you for the nutritional advice with the feeders, I had only heard of gut loading before but now I am seriously interested in doing this to a high level to get the most out of it for him, just a quick one as I haven't had time to watch a video yet as I am at work, these gut loaders is it just a selection of stuff placed for them to eat or do I blend this together to make a juice?

A bioactive floor would be so good to have and I have watched many videos on bioactive vivariums, I would really like to do this and I am assuming this would mean I can have the plants out of the potts and growing from the floor then use things like spring tails and woodlouse as clean up crew?

I have already located a local vet who specialises in reptiles as been a new owner has left me a bit stressed and constantly worried about him.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to provide all this info it has really helped me with knowledge and confidence levels for looking after him.

Yes, silkworms are great for hydration and nutrition. You don’t need to remove the heads of the bitey bugs. Chams instinct tells them how to eat them carefully. Hand feeding is great for building trust. Just don’t use tongs. Too many chams have gotten tongue injuries from tong feeding, even up to losing their tongue.
There is gut loading which is feeding the bugs so many hours before you give them to your cham, and then there is just keeping your bugs well fed. I and many chose to just keep the bugs well fed. Some do blend all of the ingredients and freeze into cubes. That got too messy for me so I just give them small pieces of food.
Yes, bioactive is creating a living ecosystem with live plants, springtails and isopods to keep everything clean. Managing drainage is usually the hardest part to figure out. The guide I gave the link for is really great and explains it nicely.

Hey!

Yesterday after handling he got black dots on his face in areas, I am assuming this was from extreme stress as my grandma came flying into the room so I put him back immediately even tho he was hesitant to leave my hand I waited till he went in then left the room for nearly 2 hours when I came back he hasn’t changed much but it was bed time so I turned his lights off and went back downstairs I’ve come back this morning and he seems fine, he ate well and was vibrant. I can’t really see any block parts on him at all now but it does have me paranoid. I know it is commonly extreme stress but it makes me curios, if it wasn’t extreme stress, would he still have the black spots on his face (they were only on his face) it also made me think he could be constipated? I haven’t seen his feces in 2 days now so either he’s don’t it in a real special place I can’t see or he hasn’t gone yet

There’s all different types of stress. The kind that we need to be primarily concerned with is chronic stress...the kind that just goes on endlessly. Sometimes it’s unavoidable to cause our chams some degree of stress, but it is brief and once it’s over, they can relax. When stressed, they ‘fire up’ their colors and patterns and often puff out...all normal. Re: his poo, make sure your basking temp is between 27-29c so that he can digest properly. Just an FYI - the longer they go without pooping, the darker the urate may be. A cham that hasn’t pooped in a week will likely have some orange urates.

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

Honestly again all of that is so helpful and awesome information thank you so much! You don’t understand how much you have helped

One last question, will you just take a quick look and tell me if he looks healthy? The darker colours around his Mitch worry me a tad I was worried of a fungal infection but they brighten and darken so I think I am just over thinking it

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

 

[Beppo]

He’s beautiful! Just hear for the chameleon pics

 

[MissSkittles]

You are very welcome!
Your cham looks fine and healthy, but I am curious about what looks like some sort of scar on his arm. If it is a scar, just keep an eye on it when he sheds. It shouldn’t be a problem, but vigilance never hurts.

 

[GrannyK]

He’s beautiful!!!

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

You are very welcome!
Your cham looks fine and healthy, but I am curious about what looks like some sort of scar on his arm. If it is a scar, just keep an eye on it when he sheds. It shouldn’t be a problem, but vigilance never hurts. View attachment 337148

so happy to hear you say that! And he’s had that since I got him from the centre I asked them about this and they said it’s nothing to worry about, I’m assuming it’s a bit of his own wear and tear from when he was a little younger, I was curious to whether shedding would bring back the scales? There’s a tiny little bit like this on his tail but I’m talking tiny. I already keep quite a close eye on this anyway as I would hate for him to have a problem with his arms and legs really appreciate you taking the time to help and have a look at bruce!

Also thank you everyone complimenting him!

 

[suprdude]

Regarding drinking water, I've had my chameleon for some time & I've never once seen him drink or lick water.

He does occasionally lick a dry branch, but that's just him marking his territory.

 

[jack_wardayyyy]

Regarding drinking water, I've had my chameleon for some time & I've never once seen him drink or lick water.

He does occasionally lick a dry branch, but that's just him marking his territory.

Awesome thank you! appreciate the reply its nice to hear other peoples chameleons habits.

 

[NickLee]

I also learned a lot here.