Spade chameleons

When a female chameleon has been spade, will she still go through the motions of being gravid ie restlesness, digging, loss of appitite etc?

She should not, as her hormone balance would be altered by the spay

But, if she was spayed while gravid (or in a emergency attempt to remove her eggs) I don't know if she would continue to behave as if she is still gravid for a while afterwards.

Spaying a cham to prevent egg production is risky as not many vets have done it and chams don't always respond well to surgery. If you want to prevent egg formation you can reduce temps, shorten day length, don't overfeed, or over supplement.

How is she doing? Is she acting strangely at all?

My chameleon was spade due to problems laying her eggs. The vet hardly even looked at her and I was told that there was no other option (I asked about oxytoxine etc and was told that that hardly ever worked). I figured that at least if she was spade her problems would be over so long as she pulled through the surgery. (I was made to feel very un caring for asking if there were any other options). After she was spade she did improve although her veil and face never fully filled out. Poor little chameleon suffered another set back not long after, and still within the time that I had been told was critical. I think this was anaphalactic shock but never got a definate answer on this. Miraculasly she overcame this and continued to improve. Without checking I could not say how long ago this all took place but it is a long while ago now....about 3 days ago she seemed to loose her appitite which I was a tad worried about but she was still drinking and seemed OK. Yesterday I noticed her digging in the soil in her plant and later on the floor of her viv!!! Today I thought well here goes I will put her a laying bin in the viv just to see what happens! She is currently in there digging!!!! but surly she can not be gravid??? She was spade?

Miss Lily said:

How is she doing? Is she acting strangely at all?

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I am at a loss!
I jokingly said to my partner that maybe nobody told her that she could no longer produce eggs when she started digging in her plant...but seeing her digging down near the bottom of the laying bin today, she means business! makes me wonder just what is going on? Is it possible that they did the op wrong? or are her hormones a bit messed up or something?

Hmmm. What are her temps like? Maybe you have just turned the central heating on and it's got too hot for her in the cage? Just a thought... I don't know if chams can go through phantom pregnancies like dogs and cats. When Lily laid her two clutches they were 4 months apart. Is it possible that she had her troubles 4 months ago or so, or was it longer ago than that?

I remember you posting about her at the time. Don't really know what to suggest right now.

well its night time now so not much point in checking the temps just yet becase I wont really get a true reading (her lights have been off for a couple of hours now). I will check the temps and the date she was poorly in the morning...thank you for your concern!

I don't get a good feeling about your vet. Granted I don't know the whole story, but it really sounds like either A) they know jack about chams or B) business is slow, surgeries aren't cheap.

If this vet isn't very knowledgeable with chams, it's very likely they realized they were in over their heads after opening her up, and didn't remove anything. If she lays eggs I would sue.

As far as the cham goes, as long as she is healthy I would let her dig until her heart's content...It can't hurt her to go through the motions.

If nothing else I would find a different vet. Making you feel the way they did over offering other (more sensible) options, would have pissed me off. They would have been lucky if I let them touch her after that.

Is it possible that the vet just removed the eggs and left everything else intact?

Tilly is still way deep down in the hole this morning (just hope she is OK down there) as yet I can not see any movement! but the lights have only just gone on so she may not be very awake. The vet we took her to was a reptiles specialist (which they charge for in a big way!) they are the vets that the smaller vets seem to recomend or contact for advice. Tilly did have an internal infection which was the cause of her problems and although I was upset about the way Tilly was being treated I guess that the removal of all her egg laying bits was perhaps the best choice, if that ment getting rid of the infection also. All that said...we have since found a different vet who deals with virtually all animals from frogs to elephants and whos prices and bed side manner are very nice. I shall be asking them for there oppinion today. I do feel that a spade chameleon should not be digging and fear that the op may hae not been done correctly.

I'm fairly new to this but would there be any disadvantage to providing a laying bucket, just in case?

my friend had this procedure done on his female veiled probably a year ago; well, about a month ago she layed 6 infertile eggs and then died about 2 weeks later. they ended up finded a couple eggs rotted inside of her. i dont remember the exact technical name for what happened, what i do know is that there was some tissue or membrane that still caused eggs to form without the ovaries. sure it bought him about another year with his cham who ended up living to about 3 years but in the end prob not worth the surgery. thank god hes an intern with the vet or he would have paid a lot more money than he did for such a procedure(he ended up trading 2 pacus[freswater fish] to his vet). just a penny for your thoughts, maybe prepare for such a possibility as this.

Thank you for sharing that information. How very sad! I will keep this in mind and mention it to the vet if problems persist. When I spoke to her today she seemed to think that it was probably behavioral rather than her actually having eggs (but obviously it is not neccessarily the case). the vet said that if my cham continues to digg for several days, take her in and she would check her for cysys which apparently could case her to feel like she has eggs. My cham Tilly has abandond the hole she was digging but is digging again now at a different angle. I am just keeping my fingers crossed for her.

When you say 'cysys', do you mean folliclar stasis? I think that's the term for eggs that don't develop properly. Presumably if she's been spayed this shouldn't happen. I suppose it would be determined by how much the vet removed (as in a human having a full hysterectomy including ovaries or partial hysterectomy).

oops sorry I meant cysts! although I have no idea of the conection between a cham being spade and her getting cysts????

littleliz said:

oops sorry I meant cysts! although I have no idea of the conection between a cham being spade and her getting cysts????

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Ok! Dunno, did he do a complete hysterectomy? I don't know much about chameleon anatomy, but is it possible that the ovaries were left inside her?

Just to update everyone...Tilly did come up to bask for a while yesterday so I made sure she was sprayed well and offered her some food. I have kept her dripper going all the time. She drank a very little bit and took 2 wax worms (not interested in eating her usual food still)...she then went back to work in the laying bucket. My partner phoned the vets this morning, who said that they probably left some follicles inside her when they did the opp. Tilly now has a vet appointment for Monday to be scanned to see what is happening.

I did not know it was possible to safely spay chameleons.

littleliz said:

Just to update everyone...Tilly did come up to bask for a while yesterday so I made sure she was sprayed well and offered her some food. I have kept her dripper going all the time. She drank a very little bit and took 2 wax worms (not interested in eating her usual food still)...she then went back to work in the laying bucket. My partner phoned the vets this morning, who said that they probably left some follicles inside her when they did the opp. Tilly now has a vet appointment for Monday to be scanned to see what is happening.

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Hope all goes well for you and Tilly on Monday. I'll be thinking of you!

Nosybe said:

I did not know it was possible to safely spay chameleons.

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A specialist herp vet can do this, but most often it happens when a gravid female is egg bound and in serious trouble, adding to the risks. It seems that chams don't handle anesthesia well generally. I know some keepers who have spayed a female and they did fine. Just as many if not more that died. I don't know anyone who has spayed a female just to prevent eggs from forming.